Hall effect ignition

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MoparDaddy

MoparDaddy

Damn Right I Carry!
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I believe i have the fuel injection lined out now on my truck. my next step since i cant use GM HEI is an MSD style ignition.

I have the hall effect style ignition on my 1990 360 with TBI. If i were to change the distributor to a magnetic pickup/ mechanical advance style and use the msd style box, would it keep the TBI from functioning or would they work together?

Im looking at the MSD 6425 box and the MSD 8534 Dizzy. It certainly doesnt need to be MSD. I only listed those as examples.
 
Sorry I really know nothing about the factory TBI, but my guess is you need to stay with Hall effect.

In my case, example, I'm using aftermarket Holley EFI, which is set up to be configured for different types ignition inputs. The factory ECU of course won't do that.
 
67Dart273 said:
Sorry I really know nothing about the factory TBI, but my guess is you need to stay with Hall effect.

In my case, example, I'm using aftermarket Holley EFI, which is set up to be configured for different types ignition inputs. The factory ECU of course won't do that.
Click to expand...

The 6425 box I got directly from msd. I didn't think about calling them directly and get it from the horses mouth. :banghead:
 
No. From what I have been able to find, the hall vane is a half circle. It provides a 720 degree reference for tbi fuel sync, and the rotor distributes spark from single coil. But, there is a crank sensor and tone ring, that provides cylinder reference signals. Since no mechanical advance, it is done by ECU.
It is an oddball system. A short step before coil on plug.

I could be wrong, so if anybody knows let us know.
 
The MSD dizzy has a magnetic pickup. The 6AL can accept a points ignition signal for a reference for when to fire the ignition coil and will also accept a magnetic pickup signal. As far as the hall effect sensor working with the 6AL check out page 16 here:

[ame]http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/msd-6425_frm29772.pdf[/ame]

There is a note at the bottom of the page for an adapter harness.
 
While dropping in a msd distributor will get the ignition going, but no correct sync pulse every two crank revolutions, so tbi will not work correctly, and may or may not work in a limp home mode.
 
KitCarlson said:
While dropping in a msd distributor will get the ignition going, but no correct sync pulse every two crank revolutions, so tbi will not work correctly, and may or may not work in a limp home mode.
Click to expand...

Damn. I can't win for losing. I'm stuck with this crap ignition huh. No wonder they ditched it for the multi port
 
I think there is a solution. Ditch the msd distributor idea, run the msd box from the circuit that drives the mopar ignition box from tone wheel via ecu. It should be a matter of wiring. If you can provide schematic from 1990 fsm, we can figure it out.
 
KitCarlson said:
I think there is a solution. Ditch the msd distributor idea, run the msd box from the circuit that drives the mopar ignition from tone wheel via ecu. It should be a matter of wiring. If you can provide schematic from 1990 fsm, we can figure it out.
Click to expand...


I believe that is what the adapter is for. The adapter must tap into the signal wires from the pickup. Contact MSD to be sure!
 
I somehow think, we may be on different pages. You will end up with a crank fire ignition with CDI output. OEM distributor distributes spark to plugs, provides tbi sync pulse. May want to use coil optimized for CDI. At the same time, EMI issues in the cobbled together system may arise, and may not work as well as OEM system.

Heck, add HEI, to existing system, replacing MOPAR box, see how that works. Why not? Open the OEM hall distributor, it may help with your understanding. Also take a look at the tone wheel, and that pickup.

I have tried to be as clear as possible. Not sure there has been an understanding.
 
KitCarlson said:
I somehow think, we may be on different pages. You will end up with a crank fire ignition with CDI output. OEM distributor distributes spark to plugs, provides tbi sync pulse. May want to use coil optimized for CDI. At the same time, EMI issues in the cobbled together system may arise, and may not work as well as OEM system.

Heck, add HEI, to existing system, replacing MOPAR box, see how that works. Why not? Open the OEM hall distributor, it may help with your understanding. Also take a look at the tone wheel, and that pickup.

I have tried to be as clear as possible. Not sure there has been an understanding.
Click to expand...

HEI won't work with my setup. That much I know. I think I'll just stick with the 6al box and a hotter coil. Seems to be more crap than its worth after that
 
I'm not sure we are YET on the same page

This is factory TBI, right?

What is in your distributor?

Is there a great big half circle?

Is there a 8 point trigger wheel?

I don't believe this originally had a crank trigger?

Last, exactly what are you doing? You trying to keep the TBI and go to a different ignition, or converting to a carburetor?
 
67Dart273 said:
I'm not sure we are YET on the same page

This is factory TBI, right?

What is in your distributor?

Is there a great big half circle?

Is there a 8 point trigger wheel?

I don't believe this originally had a crank trigger?

Last, exactly what are you doing? You trying to keep the TBI and go to a different ignition, or converting to a carburetor?
Click to expand...

I'm staying with the factory TBI for now since it seems to be lined out. I don't recall what is in the dizzy
 

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Edit............

You need to see if this is what you have.

If it IS, this is NOT an ignition trigger, it's cam sensor ONLY, and you will have a crank sensor somewhere. Frankly, I'm not sure.

In any case, if you are trying to improve ignition performance but keep the rest of the TBI intact, you need to have the ORIGINAL system TRIGGER the MSD

If you are going to use a 6425, use these destructions:

http://www.msdignition.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=15032386116

on page 10 "installing to points / amplifier style ignition." Basically what you are doing is disconnecting the original coil wires from the coil which come from the TBI harness and feeding that to the MSD---- IE the entire TBI will be intact, and the what had been igntion coil output will not feed to the MSD
 

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67Dart273 said:
Edit............

You need to see if this is what you have.

If it IS, this is NOT an ignition trigger, it's cam sensor ONLY, and you will have a crank sensor somewhere. Frankly, I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

That dizzy is different from mine
 
I think regardless, my post above applies---------you need to retain all of the original TBI, disconnect your factory coil, and feed the original coil connections off the the MSD box.
 
Del,

+1 on that!

Thanks for the distributor picture, that is for the TBI fuel sync, and the locked rotor distributes spark. That dog will not hunt to fire an ignition, we both know that. A tone wheel is on the flex plate. and a sensor on that is for ignition via ECU. There needs to be computer timing advance control, not sure coil drive is in ECU (SEM), or if they used outboard MOPAR ignition box. They were in the ridiculous Logic Module/Power Module craze on K-body a couple years earlier.

I have come across that info scrounging parts at auto parts store. Never seen a 1990 TBI in person, but have good idea of what it takes to make the EFI and Ignition work. I also found places selling Mopar ignition box for the application, it might be an error, much at that these days. But in my opinion is MOPAR cobbled together the system, so who knows. They were so close to direct fire and MPI, then wasted their time. Reminds me lean burn, and carbs with metering rod solenoids, what a waste.

I figure if anyone can find a find a online manual it would be you. I stopped short of finding one for fear of virus.

MoparDaddy,
If you remove the Hall plate and see what is under it might help us. Picture please.
 
67Dart273 said:
I think regardless, my post above applies---------you need to retain all of the original TBI, disconnect your factory coil, and feed the original coil connections off the the MSD box.
Click to expand...

I believe that will be the plan of action. Anything else just sounds like more work than 1mpg increase is worth

KitCarlson said:
Del,

+1 on that!

Thanks for the distributor picture, that is for the TBI fuel sync, and the locked rotor distributes spark. That dog will not hunt to fire an ignition, we both know that. A tone wheel is on the flex plate. and a sensor on that is for ignition via ECU. There needs to be computer timing advance control, not sure coil drive is in ECU (SEM), or if they used outboard MOPAR ignition box. They were in the ridiculous Logic Module/Power Module craze on K-body a couple years earlier.

I have come across that info scrounging parts at auto parts store. Never seen a 1990 TBI in person, but have good idea of what it takes to make the EFI and Ignition work. I also found places selling Mopar ignition box for the application, it might be an error, much at that these days. But in my opinion is MOPAR cobbled together the system, so who knows. They were so close to direct fire and MPI, then wasted their time. Reminds me lean burn, and carbs with metering rod solenoids, what a waste.

I figure if anyone can find a find a online manual it would be you. I stopped short of finding one for fear of virus.

MoparDaddy,
If you remove the Hall plate and see what is under it might help us. Picture please.
Click to expand...

I'll see what I can do. Not sure how long I'll be at work tomorrow. Seems like I have a crank sensor on the bottom front of the block. Will confirm ASAP
 
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