Hard start

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belvedere67

belvedere67

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I have a 383 auto in my 67 belvedere. I have a 750 edelbrock ,manuel choke carb and an offenhousen alum intake. This motor is a ***** to start. If it sits for a week I need to pour gas down the carb so it will fire. Even after I have it running and shut it down for a couple of hours it still doesn't start quickly. I tryed a new mini high torque starter,it didn't help. I was told to try a carb spacer.. any ideas?
 
carb spacer would help if the problem is heatsoak from sitting with the engine hot, and off
sounds more like a fuel delivery issue then anything else to me
where is the float level set at?
 
belvedere67 said:
I have a 383 auto in my 67 belvedere. I have a 750 edelbrock ,manuel choke carb and an offenhousen alum intake. This motor is a ***** to start. If it sits for a week I need to pour gas down the carb so it will fire. Even after I have it running and shut it down for a couple of hours it still doesn't start quickly. I tryed a new mini high torque starter,it didn't help. I was told to try a carb spacer.. any ideas?
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When ever I had to cold start an older carbed engine I always had to pump the gas pedal a couple or 3 times to get it to light. This would be akin to pouring gas down it's throat.

I don't see how a carb spacer will help. The only thing a spacer is good for is insulating the carb from the heat of the manifold and increasing the plenum volume a little. A new starter won't help unless the problem is that the old starter was spinning the engine too slowly.

The manual choke could be the problem. Try not closing it all the way and see if that helps. If you're not closing all the way now, then try closing it all the way.
 
I just put a flow through electric fuel pump on my Barracuda because if it sits for 2-3 days it won't start unless I crank and crank to get fuel to the carb. I think all the fuel evaporates out of the edelbrock carb and the rest of the fuel flows back towards the tank. I can take some pics if you like since the car is still on jacks. I'm connecting the power wire to the pump today. On another subject....I sure am happy that I decided to install the electric pump. When I went to remove the short fuel line coming off the tank the rubber hose all but shattered, it was very, very brittle. As soon as I got some pliers on it to break it loose gas started to leak out of the sides of the hose. It ended up breaking off in many pieces!! I had bought the newer bio-fuel high pressure hose so I won't have to worry about that anymore!! It was only a matter of time before I would have had a major leak!
Be sure to buy a "flow through" pump if you leave your mechanical pump installed and working. I plan to use a switch to turn the pump "on" for a few seconds before I try and start the car then turn the pump "off" once the engine starts. It should save many hours of cranking on the starter.

Treblig
 
belvedere67 said:
I have a 383 auto in my 67 belvedere. I have a 750 edelbrock ,manuel choke carb and an offenhousen alum intake. This motor is a ***** to start. If it sits for a week I need to pour gas down the carb so it will fire. Even after I have it running and shut it down for a couple of hours it still doesn't start quickly. I tryed a new mini high torque starter,it didn't help. I was told to try a carb spacer.. any ideas?
Click to expand...
it does sound like it could be a combination of fuel delivery and choke position
 
just out of curiosity - when was the last time you tuned up the car? last time I had trouble getting mine to start - I had fouled the plugs... I cleaned 'em off and it fired RIGHT up. You know the old saying - typically it's either fuel or spark...
 
ScampMike said:
just out of curiosity - when was the last time you tuned up the car? last time I had trouble getting mine to start - I had fouled the plugs... I cleaned 'em off and it fired RIGHT up. You know the old saying - typically it's either fuel or spark...
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Wouldn't the bad plugs (fouled) make the car run lousy? Also if the plugs were fouled you'd have a hard time starting hot or cold. My Barracuda (318, 4Bbl) is only hard to start after it's been sitting for a few days of if I drive it for a while then park for over an hour then it's hard to start again even though the engine is still warm. Once it gets fuel it runs great!! I've double checked my choke and it works like it's supposed to. We'll find out in a few days when I try to start my engine again.
But it's Belvedere67 that has the problem so I'll wait for a response.....

treblig
 
Treblig said:
Wouldn't the bad plugs (fouled) make the car run lousy? Also if the plugs were fouled you'd have a hard time starting hot or cold. My Barracuda (318, 4Bbl) is only hard to start after it's been sitting for a few days of if I drive it for a while then park for over an hour then it's hard to start again even though the engine is still warm. Once it gets fuel it runs great!! I've double checked my choke and it works like it's supposed to. We'll find out in a few days when I try to start my engine again.
But it's Belvedere67 that has the problem so I'll wait for a response.....

treblig
Click to expand...
IF you can get it running - yea, it would very likely run lousy - and I have to admit, mine has no choke which surely added to my issue. So assuming a tune up isn't the issue/fix - I guess it's probably either fuel or fire (spark)...
 
First when the engine is stone cold remove the air cleaner and see if the accelerator pump is working by actuate the throttle over couple time and look for squirt of gas. No gas that's problem? Cold starting or other wise. I guess if it runs good after you get started and warmed up, doubt that the problem?
I don't know what ignition system you have? I would start with first checking points gap and condition? After that verified good, I would check timing and idle rpm usually around 700 after warmed up. Next I would verify the manual choke is closing all the way so when cranking it will suck gas down to the combustion chamber providing you accelerater pump working? I would also verify the choke opens all the way when pushed back in. I would Also check fast idle when the choke is pushed in little to alow the engine to idle smoothly.

Carb should have fuel in bowl for week or two IMO and the accelerator pump should be pumping fuel in to the manifold. the choke should be coking air off so fuel will get sucked down to combustion chamber. After that ignition should light the fuel, choke should be pushed in to allow air flow for fast idle warm up, after 3 mins or so choke should be pushed in and no longer needed.

IMO automatic choke are better if you have the set up right. But, most don't know how to set them up, some carb. are really hard to get right. My 410 mercury marauder had winter setting and summer setting which was adjusting the crack opening correctly for smooth cold start winter or summer. Manuals work the same, but you have to do the the crack gap for smooth fast idle. Lot of other factors on automatic choke but the end result was the same. Carters and quadrajets were harder cause you actually had to bend rods from the choke pull offs to get crack gap and fast idle right.
 
It has something WRONG. They didn't give problems starting up when they were the new cars on the road. Sounds like the fuel pump is allowing fuel to flow back into the lines and tank. Which means the pump is probably faulty. Yes, we have crappy ethanol gas now, but if everything is in good working order, you will not have an issue starting cold as you describe.
 
mopowers said:
Aren't edelbrock carbs known for fuel evap issues?
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Sure was with mine, I eventually went EFI

Before I "got off" the carb, the best things I did to help hot soak and likely cold start is.

Home made vapor return using a Wix filter with built in return orifice

Rear mount electric pump and no front pump

Heat isolator/ spacer/ sandwich carb spacer
 
mopowers said:
Aren't edelbrock carbs known for fuel evap issues?
Click to expand...

Yep, same here as Del.
An electric pump at the tank solved my issue as well.
I saw it mentioned already but apparently some people have never owned a carbed motor, and not only do you have to press the throttle for setting the choke but it needs a couple of pumps to get fuel in the intake.
This is a totally normal procedure for carbed motors.

If there is a choke, and it's given a couple of full pumps to the floor then the electric inline pump will help a ton.
This will insure the carb is full of fuel and ready to go before you ever hit the starter.
Mechanical pumps only pump fuel when the engine is turning, so if the carb is low on fuel or dry from sitting it will take quite a bit of cranking to get the carb filled. (not specifically to you mopowers, but the OP) :D
 
RustyRatRod said:
It has something WRONG. They didn't give problems starting up when they were the new cars on the road. Sounds like the fuel pump is allowing fuel to flow back into the lines and tank. Which means the pump is probably faulty. Yes, we have crappy ethanol gas now, but if everything is in good working order, you will not have an issue starting cold as you describe.
Click to expand...
I agree 100 percent RRR. When they were new they didn't have this problem. But then we had some pretty high octane (REAL) gas back then also. I already replaced my fuel pump once because of this issue and it's kind of hassle if the damn bio-gas is messing up the mechanical pump. Either way if the electric pump solves the problem it won't matter. My car only has issues on start up after that it runs really great!!

Treblig
 
Very good advice from all of you, thanks very much. I'm going to check out a few think this weekend, but I think I will try an electric fuel pump, That sounds like the way to go. Thanks again.
 
Well the Barracuda sat for 3 days while I took my time and installed the electric pump with wiring and switch. I could have easily done it in one day but I had to make some brackets to support the fuel lines and besides, working over the rear end is a little cramped anyway. I went out today and put the key on "accessories", flipped the pump switch and waited about 10 second. I pumped the gas once and cranked the engine over. It started immediately!!
That was just the first test, now I need to let it set for a week and try again. While installing the pump I found a leak in the right, rear brake drum so I'll park it while I remove the tire/wheel to see what's going on in there.

treblig
 
UPDATE....I went out of town for 4 days so the car sat for 6 days (total). I went out there today and turned on the pump and let it go for about 30 seconds. I pumped the gas twice turned the key and the engine started right away!! That has never happened before!! It would have normally taken 2 or 3 minutes of cranking!!
I'm happy, no more grinding my starter forever!!

treblig
 
Did you bypass the mechanical fuel pump also? Or are you using both the electric and mechanical?
 
I bought an Airtex flow through pump. E8251 (5/16 ports). It's a lower pressure pump (3 1/2 PSI). I wanted a flow through pump so that I wouldn't have to connect a bypass. The car can run with both pumps or if the mechanical pump goes out it can run on the electric. I have it set up on a switch that I flip to get fuel to the carb so that the car starts easy then I shut it off and the gas flows through the (non- running) electric pump via the mechanical pump. Works great!!

Treblig
 
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