heavy engine braking & cheetah VB

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dodge69hemi

dodge69hemi

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I just install a turbo action cheetah reverse manual valve body (PRN123) and I'm curious to when i need to shift or if there's something wrong here. drive in 1st is fine, as soon as I shift (i've been shifting a wide range of rpms from about 2500 to 4500rpm) into 2nd, it feels like it just wants to fall on it's face like theres tremendous engine braking. i haven't tried it into 3rd yet. Should i just try to keep the rpms really high in second? what does everyone usually shift at with the valve bodies? any suggestions? this is my 1st manual vb and am not used to shifting it, I just am worried and dont want to over-rev my new motor.
 
My guess,check your shifter adjustment.Aftermarket shifter? Check for cable stretch,maybe adjustment.I put the same valve body in mine.Instructions said"no engine braking"Call turbo action,they will have an answer for you .Good luck!
 
Some thing is wrong there, I had the same valve body in my 330. you should be able to shift it at any RPM without that problem. Did your car shift okay before you installed the new valve body.

kenny
 
i have the same valve body in my car,shift at 5600rpm,not one problem.you did adjust cable with the trany in third,right?
 
You sure you aren't shifting from 3rd to 2nd as opposed to 1st to 2nd?

Put shifter into first detent after neutral, move the car a few feet, and stop

Put shifter all the way BACK (where 1st "used" to be) and move the car a few feet.

You'll quickly see which is first gear.

Next, put the shifter into second and do a drive off from a dead stop, does it move OK?
 
Questions, did you have all the same setup prior to the valve body install?

Did the issue arise directly after the valve body install?

Is your throttle linkage free and working nicely after removing all the kick down lever jibber jabber?

Does the gear shifter in your car feel like it is accurately clicking into each gear? Any binding or slop? I would run the gear shifter (it is backwards from D to 1 obviously) and have a person under the car to verify the tranny lever is exactly going thru its proper range of motion or visa versa.

First impression is you have some sort of drag or overlap issue where the low band is not releasing or some shi#.
I know a little about trannies but have rebuilt 10 or so when I was a kid.
When I made a mistake sometimes a band or clutch would fail to release causing a big dragging sensation when certain gears were engaged.

One tranny i built would drag when in second. You can feel it, like the car just got 1500 pounds heavier while in that gear, then when it hit third the issue was gone, felt like the car lost 1500 pounds and would take off. Pulled tranny, put ring on front pump (GM).

I would try third to see if that effect happens there so you can differentiate if it is a motor issue or related to second gear only. My guess is there is an issue with the install where low band is dragging in second gear.

Is the valve body a "low band apply"? type? My Cheeta is not. Works great. Not designed for hard abuse most would say.

Some trans experts may come on here and shed more light on band or gear overlap causes.


.
 
What is the stall in your convertor?I have a 4500 stall with a m,valve body also,when shifting at low RPM I get the same feeling.When RPM are high,I don,t feel it.Maybe your shifting at too low of RPM?
 
The shifter is a b&m quick silver ratchet shifter. the cable is brand new. and adjusted. I'll double check the adjustment again though. the orig.vb shifted fine before. 67Dart273 - there's no forward movement in 2nd/3rd from a dead stop. Rice Nuker - I follwed the instructions that came with. I'll pull the pan and check out the band make sure its adjusted right. I am shifting it in the proper direction. This is what i got http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TAC-17156/ how do i find if it is a rear band apply? I'll check everything and get back in a couple days. calling for rain... Thanks everyone. Please let me know if you think of anything else.
 
from the instructions....

1. First Gear - no engine compression braking.
 
Agreed; the manual valve bodies have NO internal braking in 1st gear.

Therefore, if you "level off" the throttle when shifting from 1st to 2nd (without continuing to accellerate) the car will decellerate as if you dropped a gear. That is normal.

The valve body is made for off road use only (drag racing), as you know, so downshifting to low in an effort to decellerate from an "oh sh_t" moment won't work.

Again, it sounds like the VB is working fine.

Here's a link to Turbo Action with the title "To shift or not to shift - your life could depend on knowing"...

http://www.turboaction.com/toshiftornot.pdf


Southernman
 
dodge69hemi said:
there's no forward movement in 2nd/3rd from a dead stop.
Click to expand...

It won't move at all in 2nd or 3rd from a stop? Even if you give it the gas? If things are working right it will take more throttle to get it going because your starting in a higher gear. If it wont move at all in 2nd or 3rd from a stop there is something drastically wrong.

What procedure did you use to adjust the rear band?
 
fishy68 said:
Sorry but I have to disagree. Some manual valve bodies apply the rear band in low.
Click to expand...

Not a problem, but, if you read his posting, he stated "no engine braking in low gear - but does brake in 2nd/3rd...

Are we talking about "all" valve bodies in general, or trying to help this guy with his Turbo Action unit ?

As an addendum, here's the master listing from Turbo Actions site. NO reverse pattern VB's, from Turbo Action have compression braking in low. In order to have it, you must order the manual "forward" shifting unit, which utilizes both manual and automatic shift functions.

Type Transmission Remarks Shift Pattern Year Part#
CHRYSLER (Non Lock-Up)

Torqueflite 404,413,470 (Includes Neon 3 Speed) No Eng. Braking in 1st PRN123 81-00
Part Number - 66-90 14156N

Torqueflite 727,904 No Eng. Braking in 1st (Pushbutton)* PRN123 62-64
Part Number - 17153*

Torqueflite 727,904 No Eng. Braking in 1st (Column-Console)* PRN123 64-65
Part Number - 17154*

Torqueflite 727,904,998,999 No Eng. Braking in 1st PRN123 66-90
Part Number - 17156

Torqueflite 727,904,998,999 No Eng. Braking in 1st PRN321 66-90
Part Number - 17680


Southernman
 
dodge69hemi said:
67Dart273 - there's no forward movement in 2nd/3rd from a dead stop. .
Click to expand...

THERE IS something seriously wrong.


The last thing I would do, just to make absolutely positively sure is to unhook the shifter from the trans and MANUALLY put it into 3rd On a reverse pattern this means the lever will be pulled all the way to the rear. Just count the clicks---start in Park, (all the way forward) and click 5 times--R-N-1-2-3, all the way back

Temporarily bypass your neutral safety switch by unhooking the push-on connector at the start relay, and clip lead it to ground. BE VERY careful as you will be STARTING THE CAR IN GEAR, and see if it will move


Use a helper if possible, use your parking brake and block the wheels until you are ready to "try" it.

This will tell you for sure that it's not a shifter/ adjustment/ cable problem.

The B&M's use a special shift lever, replacing the factory one. Did you use the right shift lever from the B&M kit?
 
Southernman said:
Not a problem, but, if you read his posting, he stated "no engine braking in low gear - but does brake in 2nd/3rd...

Are we talking about "all" valve bodies in general, or trying to help this guy with his Turbo Action unit ?
Click to expand...

My mistake. I forgot he has a reverse manual VB. Standard pattern manual valve bodies may or may not have engine braking was what I was saying.
 
fishy68 said:
My mistake. I forgot he has a reverse manual VB. Standard pattern manual valve bodies may or may not have engine braking was what I was saying.
Click to expand...

Again, no problem here. I personally think, since it's his first manual VB, that he's not used to how it reacts under "normal" driving...

Remember, the lack of compression braking in low gear is also to ensure you don't flatten your oil pan each time you do a dry hop or short cycle the throttle. However, if you coast in low (after accellerating) and drop it into 2nd without accellerating, it will have compression braking. I think this is what he's experiencing.

Southernman
 
fishy68 said:
My mistake. I forgot he has a reverse manual VB. Standard pattern manual valve bodies may or may not have engine braking was what I was saying.
Click to expand...

Does this seem like a second gear band to tightly adjusted or a fluid restriction not letting go of first fast enough?
 
67Dart273 said:
You seem to be missing some of the point

The OP clearly said THE CAR WILL NOT MOVE in 2nd or 3rd gear
Click to expand...

He said he has a 1-2 bind up and didn't try a 2-3.
Just going on what I interpret from what's typed.
 
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