Help Poly LCA bushing install.

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davek31

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I have bushing PN ptp-4-205 prothane that I got from Summit.

Question - Does the bushing push in all the way to the large shoulder or just to the end of the old inner sleeve. My inner sleeve seems to be flared a smidgen at the end, where the small step in diameters is, I could just grind down the small flare and push the pin in until the head contacts the larger pin flange.
It looks to me like it makes sense that the head of the poly bushing should be flush to the larger step.
Any thoughts

Thanks
Dave
 
It doesn't matter, the Poly bushing moves around anyway. There is nothing to lock it down. I will tell you this, I will never use those POS bushings again. If I had some advise for you? Stop,go buy the OEM bushings and use those. When I get around to it I will being taking mine out. They pop all the time and move around. I'm only talking about the lower poly's.
 
The bushing should push into the LCA until the shoulder on the bushing is flush against the bushing shell in the LCA. You can mostly see that here. If you're using the stock pins the shoulder on the pin won't sit flush like it is here, but the bushing should still sit flush to the LCA.

img_2790_zpsj1t3mbyg-jpg.1715025698.jpg


The "problem" with the poly bushings is that they depend on the old bushing shells. Definitely on the outer shell that sits in the LCA, and if you re-use the stock LCA pins they depend on the inner shell on the pin as well. If the old shells are damaged, misshapen, etc then the bushings won't work properly. That's not a problem with the bushing really, it's a problem with the old stock crap that's no longer to spec. As for the stock bushings, I'll take this space to say that the rubber inserts in the factory bushings are not bonded to anything. The shells are just pressed into the stock bushings with an interference fit. If you press the inner shell out of a stock bushing, you can pull the rubber out with a pair of pliers. The intent of those bushings was never to locate the LCA's, that's what the strut rods are for.

I have poly bushings on all of my cars currently. They are not perfect, and they are different from the factory bushings. Personally, I recommend using aftermarket greaseable LCA pins, which are made for the poly bushings. This eliminates the "squeak" issue that everyone complains about because you can just grease the bushings whenever they start squeaking. Poly squeaks if it gets dry, it's just what it does. It also eliminates the inner shell, the greaseable pins are made with the correct diameter for the length of the bushing so there's no need to re-use the inner bushing shell. The also have the shoulder on the pin in a place where it's actually useful, if you re-use the stock pins the little shoulder on the pin won't usually contact the poly bushing.

The other thing is that I use adjustable strut rods on my cars. Again, and this is my opinion, adjustable strut rods should probably be used even with the stock set up if you're concerned about handling or getting a precise alignment. The stock strut rods are just a "one size fits most" deal, and their design actually depends on all the play in the rubber bushings to get things close. When you start eliminating that play by using poly bushings in the LCA's or the strut rods, the length of the strut rod becomes a lot more critical. The poly bushings do allow the LCA to slide in and out some. They shouldn't allow a LOT of movement, if they do then your bushings are not fitting your old stock shells properly. But if you can adjust the length of the strut rods, that totally eliminates the issue of the LCA sliding. If the stock strut rods were the right length they would do the same thing, but, they're usually not once you start using poly bushings.

You say you don't believe me about the stock bushings not being bonded in there somehow? Well here you go. This is a QA1 tubular LCA. They come with stock rubber bushings and a new pin based on the old factory design (ie, uses an inner shell). I'm converting mine to Delrin bushings from Peter Bergman before I install the tubular LCA's. So here's the stock QA1 set up (yes, I gusseted a brand new set of LCA's, that's what the welds are).
IMG_3921.JPG


I pressed out the pin, which usually takes the inner shell with it. To my surprise, the pin pressed out of the inner shell! Maybe this is because the bushing is brand new. I've actually had the LCA's fall off the old pins during disassemby because the bushings were so worn out.

IMG_3923.JPG


I returned the LCA to the press, found the appropriate size rod, and pressed out the inner shell. Again, I kinda expected the rubber to come out with the inner shell, but it didn't. I then just pried the rubber out with a screwdriver. You can see the rubber takes a totally different shape when it's not compressed in the shell, and that the inner shell is squeaky clean- the rubber is just an interference fit. Which is why you're not supposed to torque the stock pins at anything other than ride height, the rubber bushing will spin and tear.
IMG_3925.JPG
 
Thanks for the pics makes things a little clearer.
My real question was that the OD of the bushing is about .942 which is the same diameter as pin portion adjacent to it. My bushing has a slight bulge at the end, as if it has been pushed in to far and has ridden up slightly on the .942 dia of the pin.
My plan is to just polish that little bulged piece off. That will allow the bushing to push right up to the flange. If I dont do this I can certainly press the bushing onto the shaft but for sure the bushing will be locked in position, I think the idea is that the arm is free to float and finds its final location when locked in by the strut rod. The bushing is a very hard hand press onto the shaft until it reaches the "bulge" and into the LCA bushing, and will probably require a few tap with a plastic mallet to finally seat everything. You can see the bulge in the pic.
Am I on the right track with this plan.
I cannot see a way the bushing could push out, its trapped between the LCA and the K frame, The inner bushing could possibly move out a little until it contacts the torsion bar.

IMG_20170316_105733.jpg
 
The flare on the end of the inner bushing shell is definitely going to cause problems for you. The problem is that if you cut it back you'll probably cause the shell to move on the pin, it's not a hard press that keeps the shell on the pin and it doesn't take much to disrupt it. You definitely don't want the shell rotating on the pin. I would buy a set of pins intended for the poly bushings. Otherwise you'll need to press a new inner shell onto that pin.
 
Well I dont think that bushing is coming off, I put in the lathe and skimmed it down didnt spin or move, so I ended up with a pretty good looking pin. popped the end of the pin close to the bushing with a rounded end center punch in 4 places to roll a little metal over the sleeve. it aint going nowhere. Another panic attack averted
 
If the torsion bars are pushed all the way forward, you will never have a problem with urethane bushings. The t bar can float front to rear if you look at it carefully. They can be pinned so they never move.
Secondly, the crappy rubber bushings are fine for anyone who really is a casual driver or a straight liner. For us who want extreme modern handling, a hard bushing is a must. I manufacture black delrin bushings that do NOT need the OUTER shell. They offer precise movement and are quiet unlike urethane.
 
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