HemiTronix

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jedrattle

jedrattle

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http://nutterracingengines.com/hemitronix/hemitronix_background.html


Anyone seen this yet? I called and talked to them. They said $2500 for it! :glasses7: It includes everything you need and then some. He said it could be tuned for boost/nitrous/blower or whatever. He gives you....

computer
wiring harness
coil pacs
throttle body
fuel pump
there is more but I can't remember right now.

It seems like great deal to me.
 
Yeah I read about that. It seems that you get everything and all the support in the world from the aftermarket cause it uses a gm computer.
 
Thanks Jed,

Interesting, read the attached Mopar Action which was interesting.

Pros:

Cheaper than the FAST or AEM units.
Allows full control over both fuel and spark.
Retains knock sensors
Comes with an initial tune
Retains OEM error codes for easier diagnostics
Very complete solution, includes fuel pump and regulator

Cons:
More expensive than Megasquirt or Modified Factory ECM and modified wiring harness
Requires you to pull the crank and timing cover to change the tone wheels
Doesn't explain how it gets around the GM MAF sensor

Generally speaking, I am cautiously optimistic about this. The price is competitive and the full tuning capabilities is encouraging. My only real concern is that magazine write-ups tend to be a bit too optimistic about the effectiveness of aftermarket solutions.

I have some questions that aren't answered on their web page or in the article, and since I'm not seriously considering buying their system, I don't want to pester them with a bunch of questions simply to satisfy my own curiosity. But here are my questions:

How good are the "tunes" supplied? FAST supplies tunes with their systems, but I've read that while they are useful for getting the motor running they are far from ideal.

Does their system convert the Mopar fuel injection to a MAF setup?

Do they supply the tuning software? For example, the tuning software from HP tuners can be 500.00 per car, clearly this would add greatly to the price. If it includes tuning software that could be considered another bonus.


The most important thing is that this is ANOTHER way to get a Gen III Hemi into a muscle car. The more options we have, the more competition we have the better off we will all be in the long run.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
So I'm curious, after reading over their website and the magazine article how realistic do you think those dyno numbers are? I've heard so many different numbers for the Hemi, though I know that has something to do with the dyno it's actually on. 50 hp on just a tune alone seems a little generous to me. Generally speaking I thought that there wasn't much to gain over the factory tune with a factory ECU or everyone would be out there getting a handheld tuner. I've seen one dyno'd with headers, Indy intake, and TBI only pull 400, at that was without any accessories running.
 
Thanks for sharing , good to have other options for the hemis.
Just for a comparision I talked to Hotwire yesterday, for a
New ecm ( they use a 05 truck pcm) with a 6.1 tune, wiring harness, and a new dbw pedal, you are looking at $1756 shipped.
 
The one I'm excited about is the Hemismart system that Mike is putting out. They're using a Megasquirt 3 box, and are looking at Putting it in a sealed amp box. They're pricing out the harnesses, etc, from suppliers. They should have everything available for the swap, some included in the kit, and some not, I'm sure. Their price point is $1999 including harness, throttle body, etc. And that is using hemi sensors and wheels!

Even better is the fact that Mile has been tuning LX Hemi cars for years, an will supply a tune for you as long as youre using factory injectors or srt4 upgrade injectors or the like.
 
He said it converts to the GM style electronics..hence the need for new coils. The nice part is any decent shop can tune a stupid chevy. He also said if you tell him what cam, intake, and anything else done to the engine, he will provide a base tune. The one thing I forgot to ask was if it will control the 545trans correctly. I am not happy with having to pull the crank out but you can't have it all.



For me I like the fact that I can get away from the DBW pedal...that thing is pita. Anyone know another setup that uses a cable style throttle body? I also like the tuning for boost down the line, as I plan to add a turbo to mine.
 
Pretty much any of the tuneable aftermarket ECU's should be able to handle boost. I know the Megasquirt and AEM (what Mopar sells) can handle boost. Not sure on the FAST XFI setup (the EZ EFI I know can't), but I would imagine it can probably handle it since it's a higher end system. It mainly just boils down to whether it can read a 2+ bar MAP sensor.

Along those lines I think pretty much every other aftermarket system also uses a cable throttle body. Not sure I've ever heard of one actually using the stocker as of yet. I believe the FAST kit comes with a new one as part of it (I believe it's actually a GM piece with an adapter, correct me if I'm wrong). Mopar sells one for their kit as well I believe (must be made of platinum though for the price they want). The Megasquirt may be able to use the stock pedal if someone wants to have fun with wiring and circuits to control it, but safety is always an issue there and most just prefer to swap to a cable.
 
Map63Vette said:
Pretty much any of the tuneable aftermarket ECU's should be able to handle boost. I know the Megasquirt and AEM (what Mopar sells) can handle boost. Not sure on the FAST XFI setup (the EZ EFI I know can't), but I would imagine it can probably handle it since it's a higher end system. It mainly just boils down to whether it can read a 2+ bar MAP sensor.

Along those lines I think pretty much every other aftermarket system also uses a cable throttle body. Not sure I've ever heard of one actually using the stocker as of yet. I believe the FAST kit comes with a new one as part of it (I believe it's actually a GM piece with an adapter, correct me if I'm wrong). Mopar sells one for their kit as well I believe (must be made of platinum though for the price they want). The Megasquirt may be able to use the stock pedal if someone wants to have fun with wiring and circuits to control it, but safety is always an issue there and most just prefer to swap to a cable.
Click to expand...

Yes, FAST XFI Hemi kit has a GM-type 92mm throttle body with GM-idle motor and TPS sensor. Otherwise it is using Hemi sensors, but getting those adapted to the right values to the system is not so easy. It have a template for Ford, GM, and Mopar sensors but values was far from right. XFI can handle boost, you can choose MAP sensor from 1-5 bars. There is also lot of different channels and features for power adders etc. but I have not been figuring those cause my engine is NA.
 
What kind of money does the FAST XFI Hemi kit go for? I have never priced anything besides Hot Wires harness.
 
Yeah, around 3k.

I bought mine last year, I think they had small increase after that. But in the end I think it is worth it, everything just plug in, battery and ignition wires on and you can start the engine. Wideband lambda and throttle included.

Surely they should put more thought to the sensor calibration and some stock base maps for spark and fuel. If the kit is specified for your engine, also values in ECM should meet the purpose of it.
 
Its ridiculous they charge 3k for these setups. There is nothing here that costs an arm and a leg to produce other then the little bit of R&D they do and most of them don't even offer a good tune. By the time you pick up a typical used engine, the required adapters/mounts and fuel system modifications you get to around 7k to drop in a gen 3. At that price why not build a hot 440? Its why this has been less popular...they'd sell more if they lowered the prices considerably.
 
Totally agree, these 3G hemi swap part prices are double comparing to the fancy LS or Ford stuff...

I went this route cause I bought factory warranty engine w/o any electrics. And by my calculation, a Hotwire loom, ECM and pedal would be close to 2k. Plus I like more of the feeling of manual throttle control than the modern electrical.
But good thing is that Megasquirt is now possible to read the sensors and sequental, so maybe next time I go to that route.

Good luck anyway to everybody with your swaps, no matter how you run it. The first test drive is amazing:burnout:!
 
I think a large portion of the cost is in the wiring harness. If you've tried to price out the individual connectors and pins it starts adding up, not to mention the copper wire with it's cost lately. I'm not saying the prices are fair, I agree they're high, just that I have seen some of the reasoning behind it when I looked into connectors. I thought about getting a bulkhead connector to pass through the firewall on my computer setup and while the connector itself is only around $20-30, the pins are $1-3 apiece, and when you need 25+ pins per side of the connector that becomes a decent chunk of change.

I remember seeing this on an AEM computer I did for a college project. The computer was a little under $2k I believe, but a bare harness that was just the big plug that went to the computer with 72" of wire and NO connectors on the other end was $700+. Pretty bad when the harness can cost as much as some computers...

That being said, my MSD ignition harness was only $250 and it had all the connectors already installed and even wrapped up in a nice braided cover, so there's some pretty obvious skewed pricing out there.
 
That's also a big reason I started my Hemi swap with a carb. I don't care what people tell you, it's CHEAPER to drop a Hemi in with a carb unless you get all the factory wiring and computer with your engine and are willing to cut the harness up (the only electronics I got with my engine were sensors I ended up replacing anyway). I had the Hemi in my car and running for under $5k, engine and machine work included, when I first did the swap, about the same cost I added up to build a stroker smallblock or buy a supercharger kit. Sure you have to buy a new intake and MSD for the ignition (~$1000), but you don't have to mess with your fuel system for injection, you just need an electric carb pump. When I converted over to fuel injection half of the cost was in my fuel system alone.

I'm not saying that I don't like my fuel injection, it's frickin' awesome. But if you have the parts and ability to tune a carb you can do a Hemi swap for a pretty reasonable price. The other reason I like the Hemi over the old engines is the potential of them. Stock heads pretty much outflow some of the best ported smallblock heads out there. Add a cam to a junkyard engine and you've got 400 hp in nothing flat. Go with heads and other bolt ons and you can run 500 all day long and still have the street manners of a grocery getter.
 
I had a small block all torn apart to build and put in my car, but when faced with machining costs, rebuild parts, etc it totaled up to around $2200. So I scrapped the idea and started on the Hemi swap. I've pieced this package together and been patient so this is a whole lot more economical then most:

03 5.7 with 04 computer : $600 (no rebuild needed, less than 60k mi)
03 hotwire harness - used plus modification : expected total around $650
flywheel: $86
Clutch ~$150 or so
Clutch slave/master ~75
NV3500 Transmission: $440
Used in tank pump: Free (going to baffle and mod my tank) (some time and welding gas)
Filter/regulator : $40 ish from rock auto
Motor mounts/trans mounts : $30 (making my own)
Oil Pan : Modding mine
Pickup tube $75

Plus a host of misc estimated at around $250 ...

So total: nearly $2300....roughly the same cost of keeping my small block actually cheaper because I included the price of my transmission here and not in the small block price. So all said and done, if you play your cards right and wait for deals it can be done inexpensively.
 
jedrattle said:
He said it converts to the GM style electronics..hence the need for new coils. The nice part is any decent shop can tune a stupid chevy. He also said if you tell him what cam, intake, and anything else done to the engine, he will provide a base tune. The one thing I forgot to ask was if it will control the 545trans correctly. I am not happy with having to pull the crank out but you can't have it all.



For me I like the fact that I can get away from the DBW pedal...that thing is pita. Anyone know another setup that uses a cable style throttle body? I also like the tuning for boost down the line, as I plan to add a turbo to mine.
Click to expand...

The LS style coils are "smart" coils, while the hemi coils are "dumb" coils. The LS coils have built in ignitors which means they can be fired with the logic level trigger put out by the computer. The Hemi coils require an external ignitor to fire. These external ignitors are essentially mini coils that boost the logic level signal to a high enough level to fire the coil.

You can get away from DBW with a few different options. First is this one. Second, you can run a FAST XFI setup. Third, you can run the AEM/Mopar performance setup. Fourth, you can run Megasquirt.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Uhcoog1 said:
The one I'm excited about is the Hemismart system that Mike is putting out. They're using a Megasquirt 3 box, and are looking at Putting it in a sealed amp box. They're pricing out the harnesses, etc, from suppliers. They should have everything available for the swap, some included in the kit, and some not, I'm sure. Their price point is $1999 including harness, throttle body, etc. And that is using hemi sensors and wheels!

Even better is the fact that Mile has been tuning LX Hemi cars for years, an will supply a tune for you as long as youre using factory injectors or srt4 upgrade injectors or the like.
Click to expand...

Who is "Mike"? Thanks.
 
Oh, he's a cool guy. I got his name from the rep I bought my TTI headers from. He helped me get some settings straightened out when I was first getting my Megasquirt system setup and mentioned he was having his tech guy put together an MS3 that he was going to be messing with. Didn't know he was intending to put it together into a package.
 
:angel13:
Map63Vette said:
Oh, he's a cool guy. I got his name from the rep I bought my TTI headers from. He helped me get some settings straightened out when I was first getting my Megasquirt system setup and mentioned he was having his tech guy put together an MS3 that he was going to be messing with. Didn't know he was intending to put it together into a package.
Click to expand...

He's been keeping it quiet for the most part. Wanted to make some headway before telling people about it, and he's been covered up with new hemi car work.

That's really cool he helped you out like that.
 
I am considering this Kit for a few reasons . So I sent an email to A.C Nutter with some questions , some of this has already been covered but I thought I would share.

My questions were.
Will your kit work with the following engines Chrysler P5155437 , or used SRT 6.1.

Does kit include MAF sensor /what type is it

The kit is $2500 how much are the extras , Pump & Reg , PCM tuner for my engine , Software tuner pakage for my engine .

Here,s the Answers

The kit will work with a 6.1 but DOD or VVT both should be removed prior to install .

Kit comes with usd MAF LS five wire ( I assume usd is a typo , and he ment used )

Kit inludes fuel pump & filter with reg .

It comes with an ECM with basic tune , It does not come with a tuner but several are available or a dyno facility could do it for you.

We have tried to include everything needed to do the conversion in the kit .

So there you have it .
Apart from the required crank removal ,I think this is my best option ( see Question before I buy ) thread for details .
 
Mo-cars,

Thanks for finding that out. It's some pretty good information. One of the key issues might be the tuning software.

For example, HP Tuners makes tuning software for these computers and runs between $500.00 and $650.00. Which puts it really close to the same price as the FAST setup. Also, if anyone knows of a cheaper alternative to the HP Tuners software let me know, as this could greatly affect the overall cost of the Hemitronix setup.

I am not trying to talk you out of it, but you really need to add up the various costs.

Based upon the lack of tuning software the three low cost (low cost being a relative term) are: Carb, Stock Computer and harness from Hot Wire, and finally Megasquirt.

Give DIY Auto Tune a call, see how much one of their pre made kits would run.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
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