Hotchkis vs USCartools subframe connectors

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DrEamer

DrEamer

I suffer from cars on the brain!
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This is related to my E body, but this forum has more people that actually respond, I will ask it here. I am going to put on subframe connectors, I was hoping for input on both brands if possible. I bought the whole USCartools kit, but am not happy with fitment on a couple of pieces, and their lack of customer service to make it right. Anyway, have the those connectors, but like some of the features of the Hotchkis. I mostly like the fact there is room underneath them to run fuel and break lines. Plus, they look at lot easier to put on. I don't know if there is any real performance difference of one over the other. Any feedback would be appreciated.
 
I have used the US Tools on two cars and I realy like the way they look and function.
 
The US Car Tool ones do require some trimming but they look like a factory piece when installed. The Hotchkis and similar manufacturers add strength and rigidity as well with a less invasive installation. Each to his own.
 
I had to do some fitting on the US Car Tools pieces as well. But frankly, I fully expected parts like that to need some custom fitting.
 
actually I just installed a set of Hotchkis subframe connectors today. Quality parts, fit nice. I like a lot of the US Car Tool parts, I have one of their core supports on the 68 Barracuda. However the US Car Tool sub frame connectors just looked like a lot more work to install. And as mentioned the Hotchkis subframe connectors fit around the existing brake line and e brake cables.
 
We used both on E bodies. I think the Car Tool are more efficient but a lot more work. I have pictures back home in my computer that I can post next week.
I also used the Car Tool on my Dart and am really happy.
 
i would hate to do the car tool's if i was on my back the whole time
 
kursplat said:
i would hate to do the car tool's if i was on my back the whole time
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Exactly what I was thinking. And if course to weld in the uscartool ones you have to take your seats and carpet out .
I built my own, kind of similar to what the Hotchkiss ones look like, and all the welding was on the front and rear subframes So I didn't have to pull my carpet out.
 
I cannot help with the comparison, but I would appreciate elaboration on any problems with fit, finish and customer service regarding US CarTool, since that was the company I was planning on using for my Valiant. If there's a problem with them, I'd like to know. Thanks.
 
Not really any problems Rusty. Just had to do a lttle trimming. Mine fit pretty good on my 72 Dart.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I cannot help with the comparison, but I would appreciate elaboration on any problems with fit, finish and customer service regarding US CarTool, since that was the company I was planning on using for my Valiant. If there's a problem with them, I'd like to know. Thanks.
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I bought their whole stiffing kit as noted above. As with most projects, a little bit is done at a time. I put on the core support with some trimming, no problem. I test fit one of the front under fender supports with a lot of trimming, but got it to work. When I did the other side, it was at least a half inch short, and a no way to lengthen it to make it right. I contacted them, they took forever to respond, and asked for pictures. I supplied the asked for pictures, and never heard from them again. I made a couple of attempts to contact them, and nothing. Even if they had given my some kind of store credit, I would have been happy. I only needed one side to have everything made right. I ended up using XV Racing front supports, which I actually liked better anyway. He actually sent me the wrong kit, but did make things right, so he will get my business if I need anything else.

Now, as far as the rest of my project, I am at the point if I am going to use the CarTools connectors, I sort of need to do it now. The car has no carpet, or anything else on the interior floor right now. I guess that might be another plus for the Hotchkis, I can run the car without them and see if I need them, and put them on without too much difficulty if I have more flex then I want.

DSC00475.jpg
 
I’ve installed the Hotchkis subframe connectors on my Challenger, install was straightforward and the welding was pretty simple. I also like how on the E-body the Hotchkis subframes back up and strengthen the rear spring mounts. Tying in the suspension mounts directly is a nice touch. And all the lines can be routed over the top, no big headaches there although some minor re-routing is necessary.

I’ve also made my own connectors for my Duster, and used the US Cartool connectors on my Dart. I can tell you that the only way I’d install the US Cartool subframe connectors again is on a car that’s been media-blasted and put on a rotisserie. Welding those things in upside down, even after wire wheeling the whole mounting area, was a pain in the butt. I’ve used all their other chassis reinforcements, the lower radiator support, forward braces and torque boxes. Those all fit well and were fairly straightforward to install. But those subframes were a lot of work. And then you have to re-route or tunnel the lines through.
 
kursplat said:
braver than i am :thumbsup:
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I made my own as well, it really wasn't too bad just annoying having to be on my back so much to take measurements and keep re-checking the fit. Buddy of mine works at a metal supply yard so I got two ~60" sections of 1/8" wall thickness 2x3" mild steel box tubing for $40 and just cut them up. Same friend also has a pretty good MIG welder so one Saturday I went over to his place and booger'd them in.

One thing's for sure, whatever the initial rust-prevention primer/coating they put on the unibody from the factory is strong as HELL, I couldn't get it all off with a wire wheel and I ended up having a hard time with the welding it really didn't want to arc to the body easily (and that's where my ground was attached). Media blasting or carefully burning it off would probably help. Also the fact that the rear frame rails are tapered made it a challenge to keep the gaps small enough. Welding the front sides to the trans crossmember was a piece of cake though.
 
Pics from my install with homemade connectors... they have been in for a couple weeks now I just haven't gotten around to cleaning and painting over the welds.

20190803_221027.jpg


20190803_221002.jpg


20190803_221033.jpg


20190803_221054.jpg
 
MopaR&D said:
I made my own as well, it really wasn't too bad just annoying having to be on my back so much to take measurements and keep re-checking the fit...
One thing's for sure, whatever the initial rust-prevention primer/coating they put on the unibody from the factory is strong as HELL, I couldn't get it all off with a wire wheel and I ended up having a hard time with the welding it really didn't want to arc to the body easily (and that's where my ground was attached).
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i made mine too, but even though they're not stitch welded to the floors, i couldn't bring myself to leave the carpet and everything in. for getting the undercoating off, the nylon cup brushes and wheels work great. on a die grinder they tear through it like nothing. lots of dust though. i wore a real filter mask (not the ones with the rubber bands to hold em') and a face shield. no problems getting clean metal every where.

DSC01137.JPG
 
72bluNblu said:
I’ve installed the Hotchkis subframe connectors on my Challenger, install was straightforward and the welding was pretty simple. I also like how on the E-body the Hotchkis subframes back up and strengthen the rear spring mounts. Tying in the suspension mounts directly is a nice touch. And all the lines can be routed over the top, no big headaches there although some minor re-routing is necessary.

I’ve also made my own connectors for my Duster, and used the US Cartool connectors on my Dart. I can tell you that the only way I’d install the US Cartool subframe connectors again is on a car that’s been media-blasted and put on a rotisserie. Welding those things in upside down, even after wire wheeling the whole mounting area, was a pain in the butt. I’ve used all their other chassis reinforcements, the lower radiator support, forward braces and torque boxes. Those all fit well and were fairly straightforward to install. But those subframes were a lot of work. And then you have to re-route or tunnel the lines through.
Click to expand...

That was very helpful, you brought up a something about the connector mounting up against the back of the rear springs. I looked at their instructions which brings up a concern. If I mount the spring mount as they suggest, then I would be fine, but I wanted to use a spring relocation kit, which looks like the bolts will hit the spring because of the offset.
 
DrEamer said:
I bought their whole stiffing kit as noted above. As with most projects, a little bit is done at a time. I put on the core support with some trimming, no problem. I test fit one of the front under fender supports with a lot of trimming, but got it to work. When I did the other side, it was at least a half inch short, and a no way to lengthen it to make it right. I contacted them, they took forever to respond, and asked for pictures. I supplied the asked for pictures, and never heard from them again. I made a couple of attempts to contact them, and nothing. Even if they had given my some kind of store credit, I would have been happy. I only needed one side to have everything made right. I ended up using XV Racing front supports, which I actually liked better anyway. He actually sent me the wrong kit, but did make things right, so he will get my business if I need anything else.

Now, as far as the rest of my project, I am at the point if I am going to use the CarTools connectors, I sort of need to do it now. The car has no carpet, or anything else on the interior floor right now. I guess that might be another plus for the Hotchkis, I can run the car without them and see if I need them, and put them on without too much difficulty if I have more flex then I want.

View attachment 1715375538
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Thanks for that. I fully expect trimming and whatnot on stuff like this, but I detest a lack of customer service. That will probably make me look elsewhere. Some of these companies act as if this stuff doesn't cost much. If I pay good money for something, I want customer service to back it up.
 
DrEamer said:
That was very helpful, you brought up a something about the connector mounting up against the back of the rear springs. I looked at their instructions which brings up a concern. If I mount the spring mount as they suggest, then I would be fine, but I wanted to use a spring relocation kit, which looks like the bolts will hit the spring because of the offset.
Click to expand...
if you use the torque boxes, they help transfer the load from the front spring hangers to the frame rail. here's mine mid-proccess
DSC01158.JPG


MopaR&D said:
Yeeaah buddy! Been on there for about 9 years now. I love the sound but I might get some small resonators it's just a tad loud for long drives.
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get a little older and it won't be so loud :)
 
kursplat said:
if you use the torque boxes, they help transfer the load from the front spring hangers to the frame rail. here's mine mid-proccess
View attachment 1715376089
Click to expand...

I have the torque box set up as part of the kit, if I use the Hotchkis connectors, they actually go through the torque box, and that part of the kit can't be used. I have an email in to Hotchkis to see if I have to run the bolts as they suggest, or if it just makes the bolts harder to get to. I am also looking at a couple of other brands to see if one of them might work better.
 
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