Jamming in a big block?

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Deucemopar

Deucemopar

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i tried searching but couldn't find anything specific.

We are now debating stroking current 360. Or just putting in a 440. I have access to solid block and crank.

Appears headers will need to be custom built. And now new trans (TF) or getting it re-cased.

Anyone else been through this or put a BB in early A body ? Ours is a 65 Barracuda.

Thanks for any help!
 
I'm having the same debate.
Exhaust is the biggest problem, depending on your skill set might not be that big of a problem.

Not a fan of the 408 design a 383/400/440 with are better engine designs especially when using the 440 crank in the B engine (cheap stroker). And if I was gonna spend 408 stroker money I'd rather have 500 plus cid. And with the new trick flow heads it's hard to want anything less than a big block.

But if under 550 hp a 408 is not the worst choice.
 
Is this what your thinking about?? /6 to 452ci

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Exhaust will be the biggest issue. Proparts headers are probably the closest to working, but still need modified. Schumacher makes motor mounts, but are out of stock the last time I was on their site. No trans issue I know of, other than having to beat the firewall to floor seam flat for clearance.
 
I don't know why anyone would go through all the trouble to try to shoehorn an RB motor into an early A body, unless it was strictly a drag car! It is a very labor and fabrication intensive operation, and costs waaay more than it's worth! Forget about just the headers, you would need a motor plate or torques straps just to keep the engine from hitting the hood, which has very minimal clearance when it's not running! Add the weight of that motor to the front of an early a body and its nod surprise that they handle like crap! With all of the power available in stroked small blocks, a big block has too many drawbacks to make it a viable option! There is not much info out there because it simply isn't done much, for the above reasons!!
 
273 said:
I'm having the same debate.
Exhaust is the biggest problem, depending on your skill set might not be that big of a problem.

Not a fan of the 408 design a 383/400/440 with are better engine designs especially when using the 440 crank in the B engine (cheap stroker). And if I was gonna spend 408 stroker money I'd rather have 500 plus cid. And with the new trick flow heads it's hard to want anything less than a big block.

But if under 550 hp a 408 is not the worst choice.
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. And at Brad :)

You're right about the exhaust. Spent the day at shop we use - after half dozen calls ... there's nothing out there for this combo without substantial hacking that we could find. So ... in the end ... for stainless custom set-up with labor ... $1200-$2000 (large gap in guesstimate but considerations of where do we put collectors, where exit exhaust, etc) Unfortunately - it ain't my personal skill set either ... lol

Not totally recovering that ... but since there's more on the market for BB/440 stuff and you don't need highest end stage BB components - at least for our goal ... a BB build can be as smidgen less. Or certainly not a ton more ... unless you go absolutely crazy.

At least that's my discoveries. I'm no Mopar expert ... trying to catch up fast though ...

Thanks !

PS. My son lives up in Barrie .. you near there?
 
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cosgig said:
I don't know why anyone would go through all the trouble to try to shoehorn an RB motor into an early A body, unless it was strictly a drag car! It is a very labor and fabrication intensive operation, and costs waaay more than it's worth! Forget about just the headers, you would need a motor plate or torques straps just to keep the engine from hitting the hood, which has very minimal clearance when it's not running! Add the weight of that motor to the front of an early a body and its nod surprise that they handle like crap! With all of the power available in stroked small blocks, a big block has too many drawbacks to make it a viable option! There is not much info out there because it simply isn't done much, for the above reasons!!
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Its going to be 90% drag car. ;). You're 100% ... why heck go through all that for street ... I wouldn't waste time, money or hack it up for that.

But ... it was done mid 1990s as dedicated strip car. The 10% street is for drag week and irritating a couple neighbors (j/k) lol. When I registered and plated it ... lady at DMV had never seen a title from mid 80's ... kid these days. Haha

Has engine plate, fender wells cut, under carriage all firmed up, etc. With 360 and straight header exhaust now (TF trans, 5000 stall, 4.56 rear) it ran 11.5 index (with off-set leaf spring set up ... kinda neat). We want to get it to 10 sec. That may take some cal-tracs .. maybe not ... we will find out.

Getting a new (and updated) elecrtric water pump, an alternator (previous owner never ran with one) and probably new fan. Previous owner built it solid and well ... just dated now.

It also has 73 (or 74) Duster front end components with some adjustable heavy front drag shocks.

As you can see from pic ... there's some "weathering" (headers) ... but pretty simple set up.

We just got to thinking ... well ... we can get the 360 into 10's ... most likely some spray to hit 10.0. So ... why not look at 440 - getting block and crank good deal .. etc.

Thanks!!

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440DART1971 said:
Is this what your thinking about?? /6 to 452ci

View attachment 1715007171 View attachment 1715007173 View attachment 1715007174
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awesome pics!!!

We are after something a little different .. as can you can see by pics.

I found one, 1, lol .. early Barracuda on the internet with a BB .. a 383. And like Brad And 273 said ... exhaust was definitely custom ...

We have the 70 Challenger ... and when deciding to get (back into kinda) drag racing .. wanted something different ... no offense to anyone, but you know what see you a dime a dozen of ...

I ain't winning any events or setting any records ... so might as well have fun with it.

Here's pic interior after I did a complete re-wire last few months

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Deucemopar said:
. And at Brad :)

You're right about the exhaust. Spent the day at shop we use - after half dozen calls ... there's nothing out there for this combo without substantial hacking that we could find. So ... in the end ... for stainless custom set-up with labor ... $1200-$2000 (large gap in guesstimate but considerations of where do we put collectors, where exit exhaust, etc) Unfortunately - it ain't my personal skill set either ... lol

Not totally recovering that ... but since there's more on the market for BB/440 stuff and you don't need highest end stage BB components - at least for our goal ... a BB build can be as smidgen less. Or certainly not a ton more ... unless you go absolutely crazy.

At least that's my discoveries. I'm no Mopar expert ... trying to catch up fast though ...

Thanks !

PS. My son lives up in Barrie .. you near there?
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Well, I have no experience with it, but I've read of good results with a 400 instead, and you can easily stroke them to 500 as well.
 
Brad4406 said:
Well, I have no experience with it, but I've read of good results with a 400 instead, and you can easily stroke them to 500 as well.
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400 has the biggest bore but it's only 0.020" bigger than a 440 so not that big of a deal. Where shines is the shorter deck height (lighter pistons). A 440 is really to tall for anything under 500 cid so 400 is the better block for those sizes but 440 is better 500 plus cid. 383 is also a good under 500 cid stroker but cause of its smaller bore will be almost 20 cid smaller than a same stroke 400 not that big a deal unless going all out 600 plus hp cause of valve shrouding.
 
273 said:
400 has the biggest bore but it's only 0.020" bigger than a 440 so not that big of a deal. Where shines is the shorter deck height (lighter pistons). A 440 is really to tall for anything under 500 cid so 400 is the better block for those sizes but 440 is better 500 plus cid. 383 is also a good under 500 cid stroker but cause of its smaller bore will be almost 20 cid smaller than a same stroke 400 not that big a deal unless going all out 600 plus hp cause of valve shrouding.
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Good info.

I have read where the BBs are easier for header fitment with less modification compared to the RBs; that was my reason for the 400 suggestion.
 
Brad4406 said:
Good info.

I have read where the BBs are easier for header fitment with less modification compared to the RBs; that was my reason for the 400 suggestion.
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That is true and also a few pounds lighter.
 
273 said:
That is true and also a few pounds lighter.
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Thanks for info guys!

We actually found out the block is 383. In amazing condition. It came out of car with 30k something original miles. E body cuda.

Our buddy and engine builder was saying (like you) he likes shorter stroke. He is thinking solid cam/lifters and designing it to spin up to 8,500. And also, with shorter stroke, adding some NOS or turbos down road he likes that bore/stroke ratio best.

Thanks for help guys!
 
Please start a build thread. We all love seeing other's progress. Good luck.
 
Brad4406 said:
Please start a build thread. We all love seeing other's progress. Good luck.
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piston weight is dependant on rod length. a 7.1 rod 440/505 is good set up all the way around, if you research it. pistons fairly lite, and not too short , good rod ratio, all plusses. big block in a small engine bay, not so much. will help to not run raised port heads.----jmo
 
famous bob said:
will help to not run raised port heads.----jmo
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Can you elaborate on that Bob? Thanks !


Brad4406 said:
Good info.

I have read where the BBs are easier for header fitment with less modification compared to the RBs; that was my reason for the 400 suggestion.
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Well. That may work out well. We discovered the block he had is 383. So it's not a RB like 440. And I've found 2 builds of 65 Barracuda with 383s. So someone else did it. Lol.

I will start a build thread - no prob. We are traveling for work for about 3 weeks. Car at shop now. So be in limbo for while.

Thanks for all help!
 
did a 400/451, CNC ported iron heads, Comp custom ground Monster Motor cam, Lightened crank and balanced. Rapped like a hooker on meth but wheelspin was just too much to handle without tubbing it, and doing all the traction mods to boot. IMHO you can stroke a 360 and get big cubes or just use the money to blow a LA and not have to worry about 'frame' twist, and tubbing as a turbo comes on soft. Also turbos dont need expensive headers, just some flipped Magnums and lots of plumbing. Most competitive "street" drag cars are blown nowadays if they are grudge match cars.

If you do choose to B/RB it, just get to the point fast: Youll need to lose the inner fenders and go J-Bars so you can have some exhaust options. SO much easier without that hinderance. The Passenger side is not a problem, almost a drop in with stock headers (watch the idler arm clearance) driver side is a mess with the steering bar and pitman arm. Pro-Parts to the rescue...1 tube needs to be modded on either side but they are fenderwell so youll be hacking yours anyway, hence the delete advice. Tie the shock mounts to the J-Bar
 
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many years ago i dropped a 440 in a 64 valiant.. pretty easy swap.. just needed custom headers made for it.. personally i think it was easier to work on with the 440 then the 360 i had in it before that..

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pishta said:
did a 400/451, CNC ported iron heads, Comp custom ground Monster Motor cam, Lightened crank and balanced. Rapped like a hooker on meth but wheelspin was just too much to handle without tubbing it, and doing all the traction mods to boot. IMHO you can stroke a 360 and get big cubes or just use the money to blow a LA and not have to worry about 'frame' twist, and tubbing as a turbo comes on soft. Also turbos dont need expensive headers, just some flipped Magnums and lots of plumbing. Most competitive "street" drag cars are blown nowadays if they are grudge match cars.

If you do choose to B/RB it, just get to the point fast: Youll need to lose the inner fenders and go J-Bars so you can have some exhaust options. SO much easier without that hinderance. The Passenger side is not a problem, almost a drop in with stock headers (watch the idler arm clearance) driver side is a mess with the steering bar and pitman arm. Pro-Parts to the rescue...1 tube needs to be modded on either side but they are fenderwell so youll be hacking yours anyway, hence the delete advice. Tie the shock mounts to the J-Bar
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Thanks!

It's already tubbed. And half inner fender already gone. Already has engine plate. We'll have to se clearances and what we have when fitting. ;)
 
Angel wing headers are just what the doctor ordered. So much stuff solved with an up and over design. The block physically fits with no problems, even steering is doable with Hi-po logs and shimming motor 1/4" to passenger side. You can buy 'derby' headers and mod them as they are already flanged, out and up.
https://www.decheaders.com/product-category/headers/8-cylinder/bb-mopar/
 
For sure look-up the famous "Hemi Under Glass" Barracuda drag car of the 1960's. Several tribute cars have been fabb'ed.
I think all who have stuffed a BB or RB engine in an early-A had to route the headers thru cutouts in the inner fenders. Even 1967+ A's (wider) have had to do so. There were some factory BB cars later on. There is a "Big Block" forum here, plus an outside BigBlockDart.com website.

Many claim that exhaust is so restricted in a A that one can get faster 1/4 mile in a small-block. One guy even runs 10's w/ a turbo'ed slant six. For street driving or road racing, a big-block would be a lumbering beast on turns.
 
Thanks guys. Great info!!!!

We're overseas now ... trying to get ahold of builder now. ;)
 
I have a 66 Barracuda with a 440 in it, I made my own headers, manual steering and brakes, my wife likes driving it more than the 74 dart with power steering/slant 6. It has a dillinger front end suspension and disc breaks, my 2 cents no replacement for displacement!
 
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