Lifters and Oiling

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Zelus

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Would a weak oil pump cause the Cylinder #2 Exhaust lifter to clack? I ask because I recently collapsed that lifter due to overtightening.

I overtightened it because it would make a very audible clack, I would check the preload, and it would be low. So I'd tighten it a half turn, and so on, about three times. Finally, after running on it about 6 weeks (still clacking...) it completely collapsed.

When I add in the following facts:

- Engine is running about a needle-width-and-a-half hotter than normal,
- When starting, there is a delay in the oil pressure light turning off,
- The oil pressure light came on while going down a large hill the other day

I think I have a weak oil pump. Would that starve that lifter in particular? It's a corner lifter, so it would make sense that it's at an extreme in the oiling system.

If I replace the pump, should I get anything special? High volume? High pressure? The engine is a 340 that rarely sees anything above 3,500 RPM.

Would the weak oiling have damaged anything else too traumatically? On the extreme end, should I be considering camshaft replacement? I've put less than 2000 miles on it since the lifters were installed, and less than 1200 miles since I noticed anything funny.

To remove the oil pan and access the pump, does the engine have to be lifted off of the mounts to clear the windage tray? The vehicle is a '71 Plymouth Duster with the K-member from a '73.

Thank you!
 
You really have a bunch of possibilities. The oil pump pick up screen could be clogged. The main,rod and or cam bearings could have to much clearance. I think your going to have to drop the pan and check everything out. It is possible to pull the pan by jacking the engine up in the car. The fact that the oil light is coming on tills you you have a pressure problem. Now you need to find out why.
 
Thanks for the response.

I'm not sure what you mean by "jacking the engine up in the car". Do you mean I need to use a cherry picker to lift it?
 
Before you do ANYTHING else,

Do you have a mechanical fuel pump? When the diaphragm leaks, gasoline will dilute the oil. This can fail the engine if let to excess.

Change the oil and filter, and inspect the oil for smell, color, etc FEEL the oil. Look for antifreeze, gasoline smell, etc

Get a gauge on it. You don't need to install one, just rig one for testing. You can "rig" your compression tester if it has a quick disconnect for which you can get matching coupler
 
You don't say anything about the oil level. Is it full?
 
I don't appear to fuel mixed with any other fluids. Oil and coolant seem normal.


However, based on RustyRatRod's question, I rechecked the oil level. I'm a quart below max; which is a quart lower than expected.

The light-coming-on-going-down-a-hill incident was 5 weeks ago. That day, I check the oil level. It took two quarts to get back to the 'Max' level line. Today, I find I'm just a bit under the 'Add'. I can't think of where the oil could have gone except burning it. My exhaust isn't particularly black. Is this something I can check the spark-plug tips for?

EDIT: Thinking about it, I filled the oil with the car tilted toward the passenger side, engine hot. Checking it just now, it's titled backward and cold. That would definately account for at least some of the missing oil. I'll still see about checking the plugs.
 
Early LA engines didn't have the best oiling system to the lifters. 55 lb's is the normal for a 340. 10 lb's for every 1000 RPM is recommended for race applications. 340's are also hot running engines, not uncommon to run 200 degrees regular basis. Thus affecting oil viscosity breakdown in a hurry. The best remedy is 3 quarts 20/50 Valvoline Racing 2 quarts straight 50 Valvoline racing with a good quality oil filter. Making sure the filter is not being overheated from being to close to the header, if headers are used. It's better to have a half quart oil filter than a full quart oil filter that is too close to the header. By using the oil mixture described above with a gauge you would notice a 15 to 20 pound increase in oil pressure at cold start up with the usual light lifter rattle until oil pressure is at maximum level. The pressure drops to 50-55 lbs when warm. The lifter rattle at cold start up is due to oil pressure bleed down and would never be noticed if we had electric oil pumps that primed the system before the engine is started. Any hoo! 340's are very hot, make sure to keep it cool, radiator, fan, shroud, coolant, good racing oil, proper filter. Keep in mind there are oil cooler's and transmission coolers. I have a transmission cooler that runs inline with the radiator transmission cooling system which helps to keep things cooler. As hot as a 340 runs you don't have to worry about it running too cold, with a 160 degree thermostat and everything above my car only runs 160 degrees on a very cold day and 140 degrees on a freezing day. On a hot day 190 to 200 degrees in the wind, at an idle 200 degrees and climbing, (don't idle) that is the poorest oil pressure. Good luck!
 
So it looks like I have three options going forward:

Option 1: Replace just the lifter, and then check the oil pressure. Replace the pump if pressure is bad.
Might risk damaging the new lifter by breaking it in with a weak pump?

Option 2: Try to check the oil pressure (while running on a dead lifter) to determine the oil pump condition. If bad, replace pump when I replace the lifter.
Probably not great for the cam and rockers.

Option 3: Replace both the pump and lifter without checking the pressure.
Might be unecessarily time consuming and expensive.

What do you gentlemen think is the best way forward?
 
I already told you

CHANGE THE OIL AND FILTER. Then you know you have good clean oil. I disagree completely with mixing oil as per above

GET A GAUGE rigged and check the pressure, engine at operating temp, then go from there.
 
Perhaps I should have said sooner: The oil and filter are both new, aged less than 1000 miles according to my records. It's golden on the dipstick; not even fully black.

I fully intend to get a pressure gauge on it. The question I'm asking now is whether to do it before or after replacing the lifter.
 
Exhaust #2 has been tightened a half turn 3 times in 6 weeks.....
2000 miles since lifters installed.....

Did you do a cam and lifter change or just lifters?

Hope not but I would check for a wiped lobe
 
I only changed the lifters.

I know the lifter is done; hopefully it failed before causing cam damage. When I pulled the valve cover and pressed down on the rocker, it moved to the bottom-of-travel with almost no effort.

I can do a preliminary check of the lobe fairly soon. I'll check the travel of the pushrod with the rocker arm completely loosened. I'm guessing I should see about 0.333 inches of travel, considering a half-inch valve lift and 1.5 ratio rocker arm. It won't tell the full story, but it should give me a baseline.
 
Was it just a bad lifter or did the cam eat it? Sometimes it is just a bad lifter and can be replaced. When I break in I use the recommended additive and drain and strain the oil through a old T shirt right after the break in, within 100 miles sometimes even sooner, if it was a complete rebuild lots of metal go's into the oil. I do this when the oil is still hot so it is fast draining to bring any metal out with it, also it strains better that way. I also want it back in so the additive is still lubricating the parts for at least another 500 to 700 miles. Then I get rid of it and put good quality oil in with a new filter and will change it again in a 1000 miles. By then everything should be well broke in and ready to go full term. I just don't take chances. As for mixing oil, that is basically what multigrade oil is. Back in the day before multigrades came out I mixed grades. I had a 340 Swinger with the hot running 340 with J heads and man it would burn 30 weight like it was water. I would use three 40's and two 50's and it would have better oil pressure as well as quit burning oil like it was water, and it helped cool things down too. Keep in mind these engines were made to run on straight weight oil. Any hoo what did things look like when you got the intake off?
 
I also like STP. I will add 2 bottles to an engine rebuild as well as the recommended cam break in lube as well as the high pressure grease to keep from marring/welding metal to metal on the cam and lifters. I have built more than one engine using just high pressure grease and STP in the Non Detergent break in oil. Both of the engines in question lived long and ran very strong! Just food for thought!
 
65CudaFish said:
I also like STP. I will add 2 bottles to an engine rebuild as well as the recommended cam break in lube as well as the high pressure grease to keep from marring/welding metal to metal on the cam and lifters. I have built more than one engine using just high pressure grease and STP in the Non Detergent break in oil. Both of the engines in question lived long and ran very strong! Just food for thought!
Click to expand...

A Plymouth super stock 318 and a Pontiac stock 400 Ram III:burnout:
 
Lifters do go south and if your lucky , you can get it out with only having to pull a valve cover.
I am guessing the motor is not new ?
I am also less than enamored with stock sending units and gauges. Throw a decent gauge on it so you know more than a red glow.
Stuff a new lifter in it and away we go.
 
Need to revive this thread, not in the least thanks to the effort of 65CudaFish. The HRM article you linked to was invaluable.

The oil pump was fine. Turns out the 'old' one was new, and already a high-volume model. *sigh* Replaced unessicarily...

Here's what I found after I pulled the intake:
965162_10200140127334624_565985559_o.jpg


Cylinder #2 Exhaust lobe and lifter are done. Time for a new cam.

Based on the information, I've learned I need a zinc additive if using a flat tappet cam, or better yet, move to a roller cam; which is the current plan.

Sadly, as this was my daily driver, I now have to buy a Hyundai; while this sits until I can pull the engine, and have the heads done with heavier, roller-compatible springs.

Thanks to all for the time, especially to CudaFish.
 
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