Looking for advice on A/C

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I added A/C to my '62 Lancer. What to do depends on how original/correct-to-the-car you want it to wind up, how well you want it to work, and what your budget looks like for it.
 
I used a stock '64 Dart setup, with the exception of the filter-dryer (it has to be new, and the horizontal style was not available, so I used a vertical style unit). Compressor and brackets and under-dash unit were all '64 Dart items. The upper bracket for the '64 Dart underdash unit brings the unit right up against the bottom of the dashboard, which works fine in a '64, but in a '62 it prevents the glovebox being opened more than a couple of inches. The '62 upper mount bracket had about 2 inches of offset to it so the front of the unit was lower, thus allowing the glovebox to open all the way. It wouldn't be too hard to fabricate an offset top bracket from sheetmetal, but I never got around to it; I'm almost never in the glovebox anyhow. I did have to move the fusebox, which was not difficult.

There are aftermarket compressor mount/drive kits for the slant-6. These are poorly designed and problematic even on later cars with a relatively large amount of room under the hood -- much more problematic in our '62s with their cramped engine compartments. It is commonly but mistakenly believed that the later-type compressors take less power to turn than the old type. That's not correct. The later compressors (no mount for them exists for a car like ours, though one could probably be fabricated if you don't have power steering) weigh less than the old ones, and their input torque requirement is smoother/less peaky, but that's all. The original type compressor is heavy and its torque input requirement is peaky, but it's also extremely durable and reliable, not least because it has its own built-in oil pump.

I upgraded the radiator (see here and here and the radiator fan (see here, because that's very necessary, and had the windows tinted with an eye towards heat blocking, not so much towards darkening the glass (Llumar Air 80, almost invisible and cuts heat entry a LOT), because otherwise you're fighting a losing battle to keep a solar oven cool.

If you're wanting factory Chrysler-made parts, the '61-'63 under-dash units are almost impossible to find in any condition, let alone good condition. The '64-'68 type (like I have in my '62) is somewhat less difficult but still not at all common (I have a perfect new-old-stock '64 unit on my shelf; send me a PM if you're after it). The compressor won't be difficult. The correct compressor bracket won't be easy but won't be impossible. Condenser should be a new parallel-flow type, as large as you can fit, to maximize performance and minimize drag on the engine (don't believe me? See for yourself).

There are two and only two refrigerants you should consider using. R134a should be the first choice. It is readily and inexpensively available and any A/C service shop will work with an R134a system. All you have to do, aside from the parallel-flow condenser, is make sure the compressor has a new shaft seal in it, the new hoses are barrier type and the gaskets are R134a compatible (standard practice for 20+ years now) and the compressor is filled to the appropriate level with R134a-compatible oil.

R12 is the original pre-1994 refrigerant. It works well, and is compatible with lower-grade compressor shaft seals and older hose and gasket materials and compressor oils, but is a hassle to get hold of and many shops either won't work with it any longer or charge extra.

Do not(!) use any other refrigerant besides R134a or R12. There are hydrocarbon offerings ("HC-12a", "Redtek", "OZ-12", "Envirosafe", etc), these are isopropane/isobutane blends. They work, in that they are compatible with the old R12 materials and oils and they cool effectively. They're cheap. They are also illegal (except for loopholes) and hideously dangerous. Yes, you carry around a tank of gasoline with you...and even in 1962, that and the rest of the fuel system were specifically designed to carry and transport flammable liquid and vapor. The A/C system was not. Most shops will either order you to take your car and leave or will charge very hefty fines to get the torch fuel out of your system. It is utterly false economy and way beyond stupid to "misfuel" an A/C system in this manner. Just don't.

The other big upgrades have nothing to do with the workings of the A/C system itself: insulate the car! Find and seal all the holes in the firewall and floor pan (there are many), take down the headliner and put insulation up there before reinstalling the headliner, insulate the door panels. This will dramatically reduce the "solar oven" effect that defeats even the best-working A/C system.
 
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Not much help on the under dash end but my 68 sure liked the Denso compressor off of the mid 90s Intrepid chassis. Draws much less power, single V belt drive, build your own bracket and works with my stock expansion valve system. Only other mod other than adapting hoses is using a relay to power the clutch coil. It draws more current than the OEM switch is designed for.
i37333-jpg.1714918102
 
Wow - very comprehensive and informative. Thank you. I will consider your recommendations and let you know if I am interested in your under dash old stock unit. Truly appreciate the help. Cheers,
Jason
slantsixdan said:
I used a stock '64 Dart setup, with the exception of the filter-dryer (it has to be new, and the horizontal style was not available, so I used a vertical style unit). Compressor and brackets and under-dash unit were all '64 Dart items. The upper bracket for the '64 Dart underdash unit brings the unit right up against the bottom of the dashboard, which works fine in a '64, but in a '62 it prevents the glovebox being opened more than a couple of inches. The '62 upper mount bracket had about 2 inches of offset to it so the front of the unit was lower, thus allowing the glovebox to open all the way. It wouldn't be too hard to fabricate an offset top bracket from sheetmetal, but I never got around to it; I'm almost never in the glovebox anyhow. I did have to move the fusebox, which was not difficult.

There are aftermarket compressor mount/drive kits for the slant-6. These are poorly designed and problematic even on later cars with a relatively large amount of room under the hood -- much more problematic in our '62s with their cramped engine compartments.

I upgraded the radiator (see here and here and the radiator fan (see here, because that's very necessary, and had the windows tinted with an eye towards heat blocking, not so much towards darkening the glass (Llumar Air 80, almost invisible and cuts heat entry a LOT), because otherwise you're fighting a losing battle to keep a solar oven cool.

If you're wanting factory Chrysler-made parts, the '61-'63 under-dash units are almost impossible to find in any condition, let alone good condition. The '64-'68 type (like I have in my '62) is somewhat less difficult but still not at all common (I have a perfect new-old-stock '64 unit on my shelf; send me a PM if you're after it). The compressor won't be difficult. The correct compressor bracket won't be easy but won't be impossible. Condenser should be a new parallel-flow type, as large as you can fit, to maximize performance and minimize drag on the engine.

There are two and only two refrigerants you should consider using. R134a should be the first choice. It is readily and inexpensively available and any A/C service shop will work with an R134a system. All you have to do, aside from the parallel-flow condenser, is make sure the compressor has a new shaft seal in it, the new hoses are barrier type and the gaskets are R134a compatible (standard practice for 20+ years now) and the compressor is filled to the appropriate level with R134a-compatible oil.

R12 is the original pre-1994 refrigerant. It works well, and is compatible with lower-grade compressor shaft seals and older hose and gasket materials and compressor oils, but is a hassle to get hold of and many shops either won't work with it any longer or charge extra.

Do not(!) use any other refrigerant besides R134a or R12. There are hydrocarbon offerings ("HC-12a", "Redtek", "OZ-12", "Envirosafe", etc), these are isopropane/isobutane blends. They work, in that they are compatible with the old R12 materials and oils and they cool effectively. They're cheap. They are also illegal (except for loopholes) and hideously dangerous. Yes, you carry around a tank of gasoline with you...and even in 1962, that and the rest of the fuel system were specifically designed to carry and transport flammable liquid and vapor. The A/C system was not. Most shops will either order you to take your car and leave or will charge very hefty fines to get the torch fuel out of your system. It is utterly false economy and way beyond stupid to "misfuel" an A/C system in this manner. Just don't.

The other big upgrades have nothing to do with the workings of the A/C system itself: insulate the car! Find and seal all the holes in the firewall and floor pan (there are many), take down the headliner and put insulation up there before reinstalling the headliner, insulate the door panels. This will dramatically reduce the "solar oven" effect that defeats even the best-working A/C system.
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Thanks for the information, I will consider the option, but I am probably going with the under the dash setup - I think the install might be easier than trying to convert the old Valiant ventilation system .

mguner said:
Not much help on the under dash end but my 68 sure liked the Denso compressor off of the mid 90s Intrepid chassis. Draws much less power, single V belt drive, build your own bracket and works with my stock expansion valve system. Only other mod other than adapting hoses is using a relay to power the clutch coil. It draws more current than the OEM switch is designed for.
i37333-jpg.1714918102
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It really, REALLY comes down to

How original you want or expect the vehicle to remain

How effective, neat and clean you want the hardware

How much money you have.

I had decided to roust up a later model small block compressor mount/ hardware for a later LA with a Sanden. This I did, from a great member here on FABO.

I was GOING to simply buy an import "knee knocker" unit off 'th bay, when I ran into a "deal" on CL. This was part of a complete system, with under dash heater / AC unit, all for about 1/3 of new.

So keep your eyes open for "stuff" LMAO
 
fratzog lover said:
That great member also has an under dash unit sitting around.
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LMAO, Howya doin, Jim? The Dart sits out in the back yard as we speak. The neighbor is supposed to get it into his shop (again) sometime this week. There was damage from a history making windstorm earlier this year
 
gsoco said:
Thanks for the information
Click to expand...

Y'welcome.

I am probably going with the under the dash setup - I think the install might be easier than trying to convert the old Valiant ventilation system .
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah. There is no way you can add A/C to the existing heat/vent system. There's nowhere near enough room in the heater boxes (underhood, behind dash) for an evaporator, and there's nowhere near enough room behind the dash for a box large enough to contain an evaporator. You'd have to tear out the entire dashboard and build new from scratch. It's been done—there was an extensively hot-rodded '61 Valiant a couple years ago—but the dash/interior work alone cost five big digits.

First year for integral Heat-defog-AC on the A-bodies was '65, and even then the system was undersized and kind of a tight squeeze because those cars weren't originally designed with integral A/C in mind...and they were much less crowded under the dash than the '60-'62 models.
 
Doing good Del, my Dart is sitting too. Something in the spider assembly is tuggin' and clunkin'. We had some wicked weather in Jersey this spring also if you can believe it.
 
gsoco said:
:thumbsup::thankyou:
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Hi all,
Just picked up a 64 valiant system off E-bay haven't got it yet but I need the pulleys and it look like it's was on a latter style 225 and I have probable 63 -64 225 in my 61 lancer do those lower pulley/balancer mount differently. I know that they were dealer install items could the extra pulley just bolt on to the balancer?
Thanks
Larry
 
On these early cars, to me the most difficult thing is getting the condenser squeezed in between the front of the radiator and the hood latch/vertical latch reinforcement. These cars have little to no room in this area, though a Lancer is slightly roomier than a Valiant due to it's pointed snout. I know it can be done as slantsixdan's conversion and one other I saw at a car show attests to. Pretty sure some cutting/modification will be required in this area.
 
valiantpatrol said:
On these early cars, to me the most difficult thing is getting the condenser squeezed in between the front of the radiator and the hood latch/vertical latch reinforcement. These cars have little to no room in this area, though a Lancer is slightly roomier than a Valiant due to it's pointed snout. I know it can be done as slantsixdan's conversion and one other I saw at a car show attests to. Pretty sure some cutting/modification will be required in this area.
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Thanks. Dan is advising me and I hope to duplicate his design....:D:D:D
 
Search the Slant Six forum for a thread on A/C compressor options. A modern Sanden is much lighter and more efficient than the old RV2. 1979 Volare/Aspen used them and I have those brackets, though currently working on custom brackets off the power steering pad on the block (for those w/ manual steering).

You can buy retrofit universal condensers ($50 ebay) w/ #8 in/#6 out O-ring fittings. Can also adapt a modern condenser. I put new one from a ~2000 Civic in my 1964 Valiant. A bit small, but parallel flow aluminum (more efficient). The "peanut" fittings proved troublesome to find.
 
My knee knocker ate belts within a week when properly charged, because the condenser was too small to get the job done with 134. Put in larger condenser, and bought a belt at Grainger with a much larger cross section. It rides about 1/8 inch up above the pulley edges, which has been no problem. I think the unit was from Western Auto, and it has a pulley the bolts onto the existing pulleys, but also has bracket that steps out the power steering pump in order to let the new pulley run the power steering, and the compressor belt runs in one of the original pulleys.
 
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