skep419
5.9 Magnum 4 speed afficionado
Not to stir the pot but I get where rainy is coming from. I wouldn’t want to jump around for the kids sake but it would be kinda nice to have change week to week.
Made a compromise and went to church this morning
- Thread starter skep419
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- Bible states a believer is a "Doer". Doing what?
- James said faith without works is dead.
- baptism is required. John the baptist disciples in Acts 19 were "re-baptized" in Jesus Names when the disciples proclaimed to them "more truth" since the upper room experience (start of the new covenant church). And what did they do? they got re-baptized in Jesus Name. Paul explained this profoundly when he taught "Jesus died, we die out to sin in repentance; Jesus was buried, and we are buried with him in baptism; as Jesus was raised again, so are we through the Holy Ghost. In Acts 2 the people ask "what must we do to be saved?" and Peter told them to "repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost". Without going on any further, baptism is all over the book of Acts.... or should I say, the actions of the first church of the new covenant. Read, study what the 1st church did in the book of Acts. Romans - Revelations is mostly teachings to the church "assuming" one has obeyed the plan of salvation in the book of Acts - actions taken by faith.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
the thief on the cross was not baptized, but what did our Lord say to him ?
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto you, Today shall you be with me in paradise"
that is salvation right there
what does Mark 16:16 say?
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned"
not "he that is not baptized, shall be damned, but he that believes not" the hingepoint is belief
everything else is santification
remember the ethopian eunuch?
in acts 8:35 Philip starts preaching Jesus to him, and in verse 36 the eunuch asks Philip what hinders me to be saved?
this tells us (like you mentioned) that something needs to precede baptism, and Philip tells us in verse 37 what this something is
"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God"
now what is really cool, is in verse 38 we have the eunuchs profession of faith (salvation, right there) and in verse 39 he gets baptized
now, just for sake of argument, if that Ethiopian had slipped and fell on his way out of his chariot, broken his skull and died before being baptized, it is my firm belief that his profession of faith in verse 38 secured him a place in heaven.
why?
because it is all grace, by faith, And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work (romans 11:6)
now, the disciples in Acts 19, whose disciples where they?
you said it yourself, they were John's disciples, and guess what, John the baptist, though he is the greatest among men, can not save you. that is why these men were never sealed with the Holy Spirit (a one time event that happens at the time of salvation...but that is a whole nother discussio, they get rebaptized (just like i did, when i became a Christian because my parents had me baptized as a baby) in verse 5, but how does verse 5 start of?
"when they heard this"
heard what?
"that they should believe on him which should come after him [John], that is, on Christ Jesus."
so in the biblical account, Baptism FOLLOWS salvation, it is in fact the first step of obedience. you are exactly right when you say baptism is all throughout the new testament, because it tells the story of men and women who got saved and then started acting like they were saved.
you quote James as saying Faith without works is dead, but the context is not salvation, the context is the life we live after salvation
i do not disagree that believers should be baptized, i believe it is a command given in the new testament that is to be obeyed
i am however saying it is not required for salvation
Didn't read all your post, keep it short and sweet or i'll have to call ya A/J Forms
. Thief on the cross was still living in the old covenant . He was before the upper room, not after.- Read Acts 10:48 they weren't asked, they were commanded. But look, any deed done without faith, like baptism, is merely getting wet
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I was brought up in a church in SW Ga. I have sinned, asked Jesus Christ for forgiveness, and I believe He has.
Religion is confusing, never much agreement.
The church is made of people, and people are sinners, hyprocrits. We must not judge the worth of our faith on the goodness of man, in the church?
I am not a "people" person. My faith tells me to be. I can not.
I feel the Bible is a roadmap as to how to live our lives. I need simplicity. The Ten Commandments is that. Do I make mistakes? Yes, not maybe as many as I have before. I ask Jess Christ to forgive my mistakes.
I do not attend church anymore. I can not hear the sermon. My wife had a very bad childhood, and bad experience with church at an early age. She has her faith, she is the best human being I have ever known.
I can feel the presence of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior at some churches and not others. Not saying one is true and the other not. Can not explain it.
Religion is confusing, never much agreement.
The church is made of people, and people are sinners, hyprocrits. We must not judge the worth of our faith on the goodness of man, in the church?
I am not a "people" person. My faith tells me to be. I can not.
I feel the Bible is a roadmap as to how to live our lives. I need simplicity. The Ten Commandments is that. Do I make mistakes? Yes, not maybe as many as I have before. I ask Jess Christ to forgive my mistakes.
I do not attend church anymore. I can not hear the sermon. My wife had a very bad childhood, and bad experience with church at an early age. She has her faith, she is the best human being I have ever known.
I can feel the presence of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior at some churches and not others. Not saying one is true and the other not. Can not explain it.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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As for baptism
I think one has to bear in mind who the Gentiles were,who they worshiped and how. They were coming out of a devil- worshiping, child sacrificing, it's all about my happiness, get-it-while-I-can cuz when I die that's that ,religion.
This new monothestic religion they were embracing was peculiar, to them, teaching everlasting life in a coming New Kingdom. Jesus cleaned them up on the inside, baptism on the outside, and it was a public sign of their faith in the new religion. So all their friends knew what they had done; they had confessed Jesus before men, so Jesus could confess them to the Father.
And what do we hear from heaven when Jesus came up out of the water? "This is my son in whom I am well pleased" Jesus confessed Himself to the Father, and Father accepted the confession.
Because we have this pattern,I got baptized by immersion..... because Jesus did it that way, and it pleased God. I washed off 40 years of dirt, that would otherwise have been destroyed in the fire. Now I was a new man, having buried the old AJ; clean on the inside, and clean on the outside, and the entire congregation were my witnesses. Now, to them, I had become a brother, and they had become my family. As my brothers they were supposed to be there to help me grow, and to correct me when I erred, and to edify me. And if I got sick, the elders were to gather 'round me anoint me with oil, lay hands on me and cast out the devil's work.
Consider what happens if a person does not get baptized, as a sign of faith. As a new Christian, not yet baptized, there is no impetus to continue in the religion if it doesn't seem to be working for you. Nobody knows you so nobody will miss you if you don't show up. So backsliding is an ever-present possibility. You have no supportwork from your brothers because...... they don't know you!
And what happens to backsliders? God makes it really difficult to get out of, because backsliders have made the sacrifice of the Savior to be of no effect. This is critical business.
Having heard the same sermons over and over for 6 years, I got out of that church, cuz there was no meat and potatoes in it. It had become clear that the pastor would not, or could not, teach the whole Bible; we were stuck in the New Testament, and all the other stuff was sorta off-limits. So as far as I was concerned, those Pentecostals were in a holding pattern, sucking milk thru a straw, and the Spirit was not in that church, so..... I was outta there. And not one of my brothers came after me.
Besides, this time we spend here on earth, is all a test; a test designed to separate out the tares from the wheat, the goats from the sheep; the rebels from the obedient Believers. Rebels are goats and goats are destined to the Fire. Believers are the sheep, those who hear the shepherd's voice,obey,and are destined to the soon coming; New Heaven, New Earth, New Kingdom, and New Jerusalem, wherein dwells our Father,and with Him the Son, forever and ever.
I agree that that the thief on the cross was forgiven, because he confessed Jesus as Lord, before men, and so will be in heaven, but contend that since he was just hours or minutes from death, and was there with the King of kings, backsliding would have been particularly difficult.
Is baptism a prerequisite to salvation? Obviously not.
Baptism is like the curbs at the edges of a one-way street, a constant reminder of where the path is, and to help you stay on it, and that there are many other people on the same trail. While jostling may happen, and crashes are bad, People learn to help eachother to reach their destination.
My 2cents
I think one has to bear in mind who the Gentiles were,who they worshiped and how. They were coming out of a devil- worshiping, child sacrificing, it's all about my happiness, get-it-while-I-can cuz when I die that's that ,religion.
This new monothestic religion they were embracing was peculiar, to them, teaching everlasting life in a coming New Kingdom. Jesus cleaned them up on the inside, baptism on the outside, and it was a public sign of their faith in the new religion. So all their friends knew what they had done; they had confessed Jesus before men, so Jesus could confess them to the Father.
And what do we hear from heaven when Jesus came up out of the water? "This is my son in whom I am well pleased" Jesus confessed Himself to the Father, and Father accepted the confession.
Because we have this pattern,I got baptized by immersion..... because Jesus did it that way, and it pleased God. I washed off 40 years of dirt, that would otherwise have been destroyed in the fire. Now I was a new man, having buried the old AJ; clean on the inside, and clean on the outside, and the entire congregation were my witnesses. Now, to them, I had become a brother, and they had become my family. As my brothers they were supposed to be there to help me grow, and to correct me when I erred, and to edify me. And if I got sick, the elders were to gather 'round me anoint me with oil, lay hands on me and cast out the devil's work.
Consider what happens if a person does not get baptized, as a sign of faith. As a new Christian, not yet baptized, there is no impetus to continue in the religion if it doesn't seem to be working for you. Nobody knows you so nobody will miss you if you don't show up. So backsliding is an ever-present possibility. You have no supportwork from your brothers because...... they don't know you!
And what happens to backsliders? God makes it really difficult to get out of, because backsliders have made the sacrifice of the Savior to be of no effect. This is critical business.
Having heard the same sermons over and over for 6 years, I got out of that church, cuz there was no meat and potatoes in it. It had become clear that the pastor would not, or could not, teach the whole Bible; we were stuck in the New Testament, and all the other stuff was sorta off-limits. So as far as I was concerned, those Pentecostals were in a holding pattern, sucking milk thru a straw, and the Spirit was not in that church, so..... I was outta there. And not one of my brothers came after me.
Besides, this time we spend here on earth, is all a test; a test designed to separate out the tares from the wheat, the goats from the sheep; the rebels from the obedient Believers. Rebels are goats and goats are destined to the Fire. Believers are the sheep, those who hear the shepherd's voice,obey,and are destined to the soon coming; New Heaven, New Earth, New Kingdom, and New Jerusalem, wherein dwells our Father,and with Him the Son, forever and ever.
I agree that that the thief on the cross was forgiven, because he confessed Jesus as Lord, before men, and so will be in heaven, but contend that since he was just hours or minutes from death, and was there with the King of kings, backsliding would have been particularly difficult.
Is baptism a prerequisite to salvation? Obviously not.
Baptism is like the curbs at the edges of a one-way street, a constant reminder of where the path is, and to help you stay on it, and that there are many other people on the same trail. While jostling may happen, and crashes are bad, People learn to help eachother to reach their destination.
My 2cents
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Once a few years ago a Baptist pastor came to visit. I had left the church I was attending. NO ONE in that church ever asked me why I stopped attending, until a couple years later, we were visiting a friend and his wife that attended that church for 50 yrs., , he , that one man did ask. Finally 2 years later. .... OK so church is people , and sometimes people disappoint you?
Back to the pastor that showed up on my doorstep to "visit"> We talked about the Bible,...and I asked him this question " WHY is it the Baptists are right, and the let say, Methodists are WRONG!!!?????? He looked me right in the eye, and said in all sincerity, " I have true friends that are Methodist pastors, but they ARE WRONG" They sprinkle ya and do not Baptists ya!!!!!!!!!
I was raised in a southern Baptist church in small town rural Ga. Everybody wore a suit and tie whether you cold afford it or not. They baptized. I wondered back then as a child how the heck could the Methodist go to church just around the corner and feel like God would NOT "get them"!!???????/
Religion is complicated. I am at peace.
Back to the pastor that showed up on my doorstep to "visit"> We talked about the Bible,...and I asked him this question " WHY is it the Baptists are right, and the let say, Methodists are WRONG!!!?????? He looked me right in the eye, and said in all sincerity, " I have true friends that are Methodist pastors, but they ARE WRONG" They sprinkle ya and do not Baptists ya!!!!!!!!!
I was raised in a southern Baptist church in small town rural Ga. Everybody wore a suit and tie whether you cold afford it or not. They baptized. I wondered back then as a child how the heck could the Methodist go to church just around the corner and feel like God would NOT "get them"!!???????/
Religion is complicated. I am at peace.
adriver
Blazing Apostle
I believe all teach that something must be done.
The question is what has to be done, which may be beyond the scope of the OP and might not be edifying as well.
Milk and meat if you will.
Believing is doing something, is it not?
Unless there is some direct operation where the sinner is removed from the equation.
And then there is predestination.
Might be a good time to post.
And for my next act, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
The question is what has to be done, which may be beyond the scope of the OP and might not be edifying as well.
Milk and meat if you will.
Believing is doing something, is it not?
Unless there is some direct operation where the sinner is removed from the equation.
And then there is predestination.
Might be a good time to post.
And for my next act, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
famous bob
mopar misfit
I agree with this post---------------
famous bob
mopar misfit
I am not a people person, but that is another lifetime story. I agree with this post too, I haven`t found "what I think is the "perfect" church. I don't know if there is one! Seems they are from one end of extreme to too low key . Gotta admit , I am not looking now, just attending a "too low key" one.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
you never heard the saying "if you find a perfect Church, dont join it because you will ruin it"?
you can not build a straight building out of the crooked timber of humanity
famous bob
mopar misfit
famous bob
mopar misfit
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
???????????????????????
Didn`t watch any of the videos either.
My wife had a bad childhood. Father beat her was a drunk, her mother left. Went to grandparents that were " extreme" in their religious views, She as a child and was not allowed to even watch TV. Forced to spend lots of time in a church that was extreme. After a few years she was able to leave those grandparents and go to the other grandparents. Life got better for her then.
She has seen so many people be big church goers, that she knows are as corrupt as them come, but in a small rural area, it is part of being in the community many times. So she has no real desire to be at a church. She is a spiritual person, just not a part of organized religion.
She has seen so many people be big church goers, that she knows are as corrupt as them come, but in a small rural area, it is part of being in the community many times. So she has no real desire to be at a church. She is a spiritual person, just not a part of organized religion.
44070dart
How the hell did I get this old..
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I'm a Roman Catholic which is very difficult these days. But I was brought up a RC and will remain in my church. I don't care who is on the alter saying mass, he is just a man, good or bad, I don't know. Just as other preachers of various religions are good and bad, as we have seen. I'm there to worshiper my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ period. I attend a Latin trident mass each Sunday because it's what I was brought up with and I enjoy that celebration of worship of my Lord. I've worked with born again people on my job and found it difficult to converse with them as they, and they alone, had it right. I respect your beliefs and have no right to judge them, as I am not the one who will judge. If we all truly worshiped Him as we should, our churches could be side by side without disdain for one another, because if you are a Christian, He is at the head of them all.
I'll pull a half-a-AJ/FormS.....
Belief brings actions...…. God does his part, and man has a part also. It's not just believe and do nothing..... believing is acting upon which we believe. And what is it that we believe?? Gods Word. If we believe Gods word, we'll act upon it. This is why James said faith without works is dead.
Belief brings actions...…. God does his part, and man has a part also. It's not just believe and do nothing..... believing is acting upon which we believe. And what is it that we believe?? Gods Word. If we believe Gods word, we'll act upon it. This is why James said faith without works is dead.
- Noah believed Gods word about the flood, and that was good enough? WRONG! He believed and he acted upon Gods EXACT instructions and built an Ark.
- Joshua and Israel believed Gods "make no sense" word, and that was good enough?? WRONG! They believed and acted upon Gods EXACT word by marching around Jericho seven days, and 7 times the seventh day.
- Gideon, Abraham, etc etc etc, no need to list them all that followed Faith with Action.
- Jesus's disciples put ACTION behind their FAITH when they went to the upper room and tarried many days seeking the Holy Ghost, as Jesus instructed.
- Jesus told Nicodemus "you must be born again of water and spirit"....
- Peter was given the Keys (yes, "s" means plural), and what did Peter preach when he was asked in Acts 2:37 of what they must do? Of course, he just said "accept the lord as your savior... WRONG! He said in vs 38 REPENT, and be Baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU...… how many?? EVERY ONE OF YOU.... .
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diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
I'll pull a half-a-AJ/FormS.....
Belief brings actions...…. God does his part, and man has a part also. It's not just believe and do nothing..... believing is acting upon which we believe. And what is it that we believe?? Gods Word. If we believe Gods word, we'll act upon it. This is why James said faith without works is dead.
Yet, somehow today, we get off easy, just believe, + nothing and do nothing, just confess and are saved. Every time the bible says "believe" or Accept", it's already assumed you'll put actions behind what you believe. Simply put, the Book of Acts is simply the ACTIONS of the 1st new covenant church that ACTED upon which they believed. This is why many were not just baptized, but rebaptized in Jesus name.
- Noah believed Gods word about the flood, and that was good enough? WRONG! He believed and he acted upon Gods EXACT instructions and built an Ark.
- Joshua and Israel believed Gods "make no sense" word, and that was good enough?? WRONG! They believed and acted upon Gods EXACT word by marching around Jericho seven days, and 7 times the seventh day.
- Gideon, Abraham, etc etc etc, no need to list them all that followed Faith with Action.
- Jesus's disciples put ACTION behind their FAITH when they went to the upper room and tarried many days seeking the Holy Ghost, as Jesus instructed.
i agree, mostly, but, we must be careful not too put the emphasis on ourselves
should faith be followed by actions?
yes
James is right when he says that faith without works is dead, but again, he is talking not about salvation, but about sanctification
there will be those who fit in our modern day easy believism who understood and professed and NOTHING and still get into heaven
why?
because it is the shed blood of Jesus that brings us into heaven and nothing ele
now, does this mean they will receive the same rewards as those who sacrificed for God and suffered with Christ
consider romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
children are all who believe (But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name "John 1:12") and therefor heirs of God (inheriting eternal Life) this is UN-conditional
but then it speaks of joint-heirs with Christ "IF SO BE" that we suffer with Him
this is conditional
which tells me not all believers will receive the same reward/inheritance
(if you really want to meditate on a verse, consider revelation 20:4-6, it mentions a special group of believers who will reign and Judge with Christ during His Millennial reign, and it tells us who they are, and what they did to receive that blessing)
now, having said all that, i totally agree with you in that actions should follow works, but if they dont, the shed blood of Jesus is still enough to get them into heaven
You are correct, the Cross will cover any sins IF (if is conditional) we follow the plan he died for. Consider Cornelius. Cornelius, through a vision, an Angel told him to send men to Joppa and a man named Simon will "tell you what you oughtest to do". Yes, being good and believing wasnt' enough. More to "Do". Peter preached unto him, and he received the Holy Ghost and was Commanded to be baptized in Jesus Name - not an optional choice (Acts chapter 10). Cornelius had already believed and lived a repented life. But the two other steps of the "plan of salvation" was the Holy Ghost and Baptism, and both occurred.
This goes hand-in-hand to what Jesus told Nicodemus (another God fearing man of faith), that he must be born again of water (baptism) and spirit (holy ghost) or he wouldn't see the kingdom of heaven (a preview of what was soon coming). Could Nicodemus have been one of the 120 in the upper room???
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diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
what is there to take wrong?
we're discussing things we both agree are important, we both agree the other is wrong on and we both care enough for each other to try and change his mind
i will agree baptism is a command (in fact, it is not just Peter in this verse that commands it, Ananias commands Paul to be Baptized, as does Jesus Himself in the great commission)
i simply do not believe it is neccesary for salvation, because it if were, that is something i can do
and something i can do, i can undo
but i believe the Bible teaches it is all of God, He saved me, and i simply need to believe
now, once i believe there is a responsibility to grace (i actually have a message by the same title) and the first thing a believer is to do, is get baptized.
but if i look at the account of Cornelius, it is my conviction he got saved halfway through verse 43 (where Peter preaches the Gospel, and by the way, what does that verse say is required to "receive the remission of sins")
now, what i think strengthens this interpretation is the giving of the Holy Spirit, which 1 cor 1:22 tells us is a earnest, to show God saved us.
and verse 46 tells us they are speaking in tongues, which, lest we get totally sidetracked, was one of the spiritual gifts given to the Church at the time this verse occured
now, it is not untill after all this, in verse 48 that Peter commands them to get baptized
which, it seems to me, is AFTER salvation
as for nicodemus, i always wondered where the conversation between him and Jesus ended, but in John 3:14 Jesus points back to Nehustan in the old testament as a picture of Him
what does the story of Nehustan tell us? that all who were bitten by these poisonous snake only had to look upon the brazen serpent to live
in fact, during His conversation with Nicodemus, He makes the statement that "whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:15)
I'll guess I'll close with this AJ/FormS-like statement
. 1st, I don't understand how you can profess baptism is a "command" which mean "no option", yet say it isn't necessary. That is a contradictory statement, my friend. 2nd, you cannot believe that repentance is necessary. Because that is a verb, an action, that "I" can do, or undo. yet all religions preach repentance. "doing" without faith is just doing, and really just doing nothing. And believing without doing is just the assassination of Faith, and not truly faith.
Faith brings about action, like those that fled the hurricane. Faith brought action. And action saved their lives.
God has always had a specific plan. Look at the Exodus of Israelites leaving Egypt. A specific plan of blood on the mantel had to be followed. Being a Hebrew wasn't enough, there was a plan. Just like Cornelius, being good and full of faith wasn't enough. But God provided a way for him and his house, and completed the "Keys" Jesus gave to Peter, which Peter preached in Acts 2:38. There is a specific plan today, and my previous posts above are just touch of what the bible speaks on it. How strongly did the disciples and early church believe on this way? Paul said "even if an angel from heaven preached ANY other gospel than what we have preached, let them be accursed." They preached, repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost every where they went. Bible says there is One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. Straight is the gate, narrow is the way, and few there be that find it. But broad is the way that leads to destruction. No need to pick and chose what "WE" or "I" want to believe. We are the created, and HE is the creator. His rules, our eternity. Choice is ours. God knocks on hearts doors, he is not a thief that commits break and entry.
Ddaddy
I'm changing the World... one pixel at a time!
Or perhaps, we believe something other than you do. God granted us free will, and we are excercising it...and some of us don’t care to hear any sort of judgement or “education” from other mortals who think they have found the only path and seek to enlighten us.
Faith is personal...and the correctness of it is not up for judgement by anyone but God.
Be happy that you have found the way that suits you best...but don’t try to attemp to convince me that your way is best for me.
Just be content that your way is best for you.
Faith is personal...and the correctness of it is not up for judgement by anyone but God.
Be happy that you have found the way that suits you best...but don’t try to attemp to convince me that your way is best for me.
Just be content that your way is best for you.
After reading this thread, I think I’m good with skipping church for the next month!
famous bob
mopar misfit
I don`t blame anyone for looking around. I`d like one that has a little more open praise than the one we go to, but don`t want to attend an electric light rock concert.
We dont even have a good old fashioned radio station here any more, unbelievable !!
Unfortunately Christians are the biggest bunch of hypocrites most the time !
I sure am glad for Gods, grace, mercy, forgiveness, and Love !
This topic will always be an argument.
Unfortunately a vast majority of Christian's look more like pharisees, then followers of Christ !
No one ever comes to Christ except when they feel safe, and loved !
Condemnation is for Christ alone !
I'm glad there is a large number of mopar brothers and sisters who put their faith in Jesus !
May God bless you all !
As for the pharisees may God soften your heart and show you the heir of your ways .
Where two or more are gathered in his name.
I guess we could call this church at times.
After all the body of believers makes the church ,not the building !
God knows the heart !
As he says in his word , for who can know the heart it is deceitful beyond measure, desperately wicked !
If we are honest that is who we all are aside from Christ !
Glad we have a savior who can restore, make us whole and remedy our sin.
I sure am glad for Gods, grace, mercy, forgiveness, and Love !
This topic will always be an argument.
Unfortunately a vast majority of Christian's look more like pharisees, then followers of Christ !
No one ever comes to Christ except when they feel safe, and loved !
Condemnation is for Christ alone !
I'm glad there is a large number of mopar brothers and sisters who put their faith in Jesus !
May God bless you all !
As for the pharisees may God soften your heart and show you the heir of your ways .
Where two or more are gathered in his name.
I guess we could call this church at times.
After all the body of believers makes the church ,not the building !
God knows the heart !
As he says in his word , for who can know the heart it is deceitful beyond measure, desperately wicked !
If we are honest that is who we all are aside from Christ !
Glad we have a savior who can restore, make us whole and remedy our sin.
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