Making it a better driver

-
charm said:
-- it'll be just fine at 75 which is where I tend to be in the those 70 mph zones. ----- Or are you referring to the joke of a suspension currently under the car? That's gonna get fixed too!
Click to expand...
-- I always run 5 to 6 MPH over the posted limit, also. -- On the other issue, I thought you mentioned something about getting old - Maybe you meant the post. -- I'm no youngster, myself. --
icon7.gif
--[/QUOTE]

Last time I built a car I would have had no way of understanding NOT wanting to build the engine in such a way that it wouldn't accelerate hard enough to peel the skin off my face. I'm old enough that I just don't want that (with every car I ever build).

I drive 5 to 10 over because I hate paying for speeding tickets! I also tend to drive slower cars. Nobody would expect my 16 year old Subaru Outback with 260k miles on it to be driving north on I-5 at 110 mph. But it does a great job at 75/80! I'd like the Dodge to do similar.

I was thinking that the discomfort at speed, in addition to it REALLY needing a tune up, could have been related to my total lack of confidence in the brakes. It's why the suspension and brakes are number 2 on my list. (Number one is replacing door, window, and trunk rubber so I can pull the thing out of the garage in the rain without the carpets getting wet...I do need access to parts of the garage blocked by the car!)

Of course the brakes get expensive. There's the disc brake kit, then the bushings, then the shocks ('cause while I'm tearing it all apart), then, because the 14" wheels won't fit over the new rotors, I need new wheels and tires. Then, I don't want the front and rear wheels to not match, I'll need to replace the axles with 5 lug plus do all the bushing back there. Hence, I don't see a lot of miles being put on this thing in the next year or so![/QUOTE]
 
Remember one thing when you start there's no stopping and you start saying while I'm at it I might as well //////
 
charm said:
Of course the brakes get expensive. There's the disc brake kit, then the bushings, then the shocks ('cause while I'm tearing it all apart), then, because the 14" wheels won't fit over the new rotors, I need new wheels and tires. Then, I don't want the front and rear wheels to not match, I'll need to replace the axles with 5 lug plus do all the bushing back there. Hence, I don't see a lot of miles being put on this thing in the next year or so!
Click to expand...
Does yours have drum brakes up front? I am a bit surprised on a '74 but I guess so. You may only have to change spindles and put on the rotors, bearings, etc. No need for any special aftermarket kit; the stock disc/drum system is pretty good when just put together right. And you should have 5 bolt large bolt pattern (LBP = 4.5" bolt circle) already....????
 
nm9stheham said:
Does yours have drum brakes up front? I am a bit surprised on a '74 but I guess so. You may only have to change spindles and put on the rotors, bearings, etc. No need for any special aftermarket kit; the stock disc/drum system is pretty good when just put together right. And you should have 5 bolt large bolt pattern (LBP = 4.5" bolt circle) already....????
Click to expand...

You're assuming I've had the car long enough to look at these things! I know I have 14" wheels with bicycle tires on them. I know they have hub caps on them. I actually have no idea what's underneath the hub caps. I was basing my assumption of front drums based on the terrible brake feel...there is none. Braking is all or nothing.

If there are discs on it, that would be great! I'd probably add a brake booster to things (I know there isn't one of those) which might help the feel? Also, the car really just sits, so is it possible the pads have glazed or something?

I'm thinking part of the power issue could be bad gas. I'm a little curious to run a compression test too. It may be bad valve seats as I know the car was never run with lead additives (although I've read and my father in law had been told that these cars hold up pretty well without lead even without the hardened seats).

There are a ton of things that could be causing my issues and at this point I'm working out logical places to look...before actually looking! So, the question you pose is one that occurred to me yesterday and it's one I need to answer...this weekend.

Then, if there are discs up front, I'll have to explore why the suck so bad.
 
Everybody has shared some great ideas.We need more information. What I read is you may be a little green about this car. You need to E-val-u-ate what you have starting at the front bumper and work your way to the back. The car is 42 years old.Anything could and can be wrong with it.As far as driving above 60, well, let's guess(and that is all we are doing is guessing) the car has been sitting quite a while.How old are the tires? brakes? Either drum or disc can be dragging or leaking.How about the U-joints? dried out? Exhaust from the manifold to the tail pipe needs checked out. Cat still there? might be clogged.I've had mufflers that looked good on the outside but clogged up inside.This is just a start.I'm not picking on you, if anything we all want to help you.Take your time. You are one lucky guy, 74 Dart Sport FOR FREE !!!!
 
charm said:
You're assuming I've had the car long enough to look at these things! I know I have 14" wheels with bicycle tires on them. I know they have hub caps on them. I actually have no idea what's underneath the hub caps. I was basing my assumption of front drums based on the terrible brake feel...there is none. Braking is all or nothing.

If there are discs on it, that would be great! I'd probably add a brake booster to things (I know there isn't one of those) which might help the feel? Also, the car really just sits, so is it possible the pads have glazed or something?

I'm thinking part of the power issue could be bad gas. I'm a little curious to run a compression test too. It may be bad valve seats as I know the car was never run with lead additives (although I've read and my father in law had been told that these cars hold up pretty well without lead even without the hardened seats).

There are a ton of things that could be causing my issues and at this point I'm working out logical places to look...before actually looking! So, the question you pose is one that occurred to me yesterday and it's one I need to answer...this weekend.

Then, if there are discs up front, I'll have to explore why the suck so bad.
Click to expand...


My Dart's a '73 and left the factory with a slant. Since I can't see your car I can't tell you exactly what it may or may not have but I can give you a rough idea based on my car. With the base slant I had power disk brakes with a 5x4.5" bolt pattern, hardened seats, electronic ignition, no power steering or AC or any other luxuries. These are things you want and luckily, you should already have them. I can't say for sure on the brakes but a lot of the '73+ A bodies did have disk brakes with single piston calipers, my /6 Dart Sport included. They could be sticking or have air in the lines. Mine sat for many years and there was no fluid in the master cylinder and the pedal would go to the floor. Rebuilding the brake system with stock components will help get it back to working properly.

As for the no power issue, slant's aren't powerhouses but we've already established this. Rebuild the carburetor, then tune it. It's been sitting a while and probably needs going through. A compression test is a good idea too, cross your fingers and hope there's nothing major wrong with the engine. Other than the carb, do the basics. New plugs and wires, inspect the distributor cap and rotor for corrosion or any other abnormal wear. Check the timing. Make sure it's getting good spark too. An engine needs 3 things to run: Fuel, air, spark (at the right time). Compression is pretty important too. If one of these isn't up to par, it'll be down on power. Check the basics then go from there. If everything is running well and you still aren't satisfied with the power then take a look at modding the slant.

You should put up some pictures, we love pictures! It'll also allow us to help you know what parts you've got
 
Also be sure to check the valve clearances and adjust if needed.
 
Darter6 said:
Everybody has shared some great ideas.We need more information. What I read is you may be a little green about this car. You need to E-val-u-ate what you have starting at the front bumper and work your way to the back. The car is 42 years old.Anything could and can be wrong with it.As far as driving above 60, well, let's guess(and that is all we are doing is guessing) the car has been sitting quite a while.How old are the tires? brakes? Either drum or disc can be dragging or leaking.How about the U-joints? dried out? Exhaust from the manifold to the tail pipe needs checked out. Cat still there? might be clogged.I've had mufflers that looked good on the outside but clogged up inside.This is just a start.I'm not picking on you, if anything we all want to help you.Take your time. You are one lucky guy, 74 Dart Sport FOR FREE !!!!
Click to expand...

... With 67k miles and had never left the family!

And, I'm getting great stuff out if this!. It's hugely helpful for strategizing what I need to be looking for. Some of it is basic, like do I have discs or drums up front? Some will require grabbing service records from my FIL. He had been meticulous about service sox even though it wasn't being driven, fluid were changed per his mechanics schedule. The tires, tiny as they are, apart road worthy, but will be changed in the not too distant future.

From there, I'm getting a great list together, from this advice, for me Saturday under the car.

I'm beginning to suspect, with much relief and g gratitude, that I won't need to do an engine to meet my current goals. When those goals change, I'll revisit the question of a swap.
 
I worked for Chrysler in the 70's and am well acquainted with 74 Dart Sports. They are great cars.

1. Check the brakes, cut the rotors, turn the drums and get new friction materials. Check seals and make sure you are not leaking brake fluid anywhere. Be safe.

2. Unless lower ball joints have been replaced, they are shot. After they are good, get a good performance alignment. There was a recent thread, that had good info. Do not have them do a stock 74 Dart Sport book alignment. Then get some good performance Radial tires, somewhere in the 24 to 25 in OD range. Put on a front sway bar package when you can.

3. You have hardened exhaust seats. Adjust the valves, they are mechanical. Rebuild the carb if you have fuel problems. Use a 2 1/4 exhaust all the way back if you can afford it. Put Taylor Spiro Pro wires on it, adjust the reluctor air gap in the distributor, and put in a set of platinum plugs. Replace the cap and rotor with the good stuff.

4. Run out that old gas. It should now be a real pleasure to drive. Easily able to cruise at 75 mph all day long.

5. If that is not fast enough, we can get into the motor.
 
A 74 with a slant could have drum or disc up front: drum would be 4" bolt pattern, disc would be 4.5". Disc were standard on the V8 cars, but optional with /6. Factory style disc brakes will fit inside 14" wheels. TheRamMan advertises that his kit will too, because it's basically newly fabricated stock parts. He even has a 4" bolt pattern rotor in case you don't want to change bolt patterns.
 
First thing you need is a '71 front clip and tail panel. Get rid of the beak unless you're going to paint it like an eagle. After that you can drive it.
 
nm9stheham said:
Does yours have drum brakes up front? I am a bit surprised on a '74 but I guess so. You may only have to change spindles and put on the rotors, bearings, etc. No need for any special aftermarket kit; the stock disc/drum system is pretty good when just put together right. And you should have 5 bolt large bolt pattern (LBP = 4.5" bolt circle) already....????
Click to expand...

Finished up a bit early today so had some time to crawl under the car. I most certainly DO have drum brakes. But, there appears to be a ton of grease coming from around the ball joints especially on the driver's side. The grease is basically right at the drum and I can't help but imagine that would impact braking if it got in there! I didn't pull a wheel off, but if those aren't drums, they're the strangest looking rotors I've ever seen because they look just like drums.

I did pull off a hub cap and it is the BBP 5 lug...HOORAY for something going my way!

This is also the first chance I've had to just have it running and wander around it. It smokes a lot when cold but stops when warm. It looks like there's a bit of an oil leak at the back of the valve cover gasket and the upper power steering pump hose looks like it needs to be replaced to stop that leak as well. The exhaust, looks like it has seen better days, so there's my excuse to upgrade that from front to back (except the exhaust manifold looks fine, but I'll justify replacing it with something else anyway). The carb is adorable. I don't remember the last time I saw a little tiny 1 barrel carb like that. It's just so cute. Clearly that needs to be changed out for something less 'cute'.

So, the list is coming along and little looks, and suggestions for what to look for, are hugely helpful in building that list!

Thanks everybody!!!!
 
rich006 said:
A 74 with a slant could have drum or disc up front: drum would be 4" bolt pattern, disc would be 4.5". Disc were standard on the V8 cars, but optional with /6. Factory style disc brakes will fit inside 14" wheels. TheRamMan advertises that his kit will too, because it's basically newly fabricated stock parts. He even has a 4" bolt pattern rotor in case you don't want to change bolt patterns.
Click to expand...

The bolt pattern is measured across lug nuts (skipping one) correct? Because measuring like that, it's 4.5". If you measure to the adjacent lug nut, it's 4 inch. The tape measure don't lie!
 
old school trick for you, you said it smokes on start up till warm but has 67K. The pistons are not worn out but the rings are probably carboned up. If the FIL only drove short distance and never took it out and wrung its neck, I would get some marvel mystery oil then drive to where there are no people....shes going to smoke a bit....a good section of deserted road would be great. ?Now remove air cleaner and with engine running, drizzle about a tablespoon down carb . rev it up a few times till shes smoking like a Taurus. Do some good acceleration runs then repeat. might want to try the cycle 3-4 times. Dont worry, it will stop smoking after you drive it a bit or maybe two bits....The marvel oil is loaded with spearmint oil, the rest is mostly ATF. The spearmint oil will break any carbon or varnish loose helping to free up the rings and get them sealing again.

Deserted road is in case you like your neighbors BTW:D
 
Smoking on startup is more likely to be valve guides. Does it also give a puff of smoke when you lift? Treating her for sticky rings is a good idea as well. For that my number one suggestion is Mercury PowerTune

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SSMGRC/?tag=joeychgo-20

You just pull the plugs, spray it in, replace plugs. It foams up like shaving cream them melts down to liquid and penetrates well. It will easily break up carbon and free the rings.
 
Give it a tune up check the valve lash...clean out the gas tank..upgrade to the 2 bbl carter . Open up that exhaust 2.5". .2.76 gears outback. New brakes and shocks all around ...and if u still got money left over on that budget perhaps sway bars you'll be able to hit corners like those ricers
 
Late to the party, but ...

My '64 Valiant is not unhappy at 80.
64at80.jpg


(Taken on I-20, near Monahans, Texas, where the speed limit is indeed 80MPH. The GPS indicated 80 on the nose, the speedometer was a hair above.)

That's with a near-stock 225, BBS, 2.94 rear, disk brake swap, 205-60R15's, etc. No idea of the RPM, but it didn't sound too busy.
 
I drove a 1969 Dart w/ 225 for decades. I don't know that I ever drove at 80 mph, and wouldn't even tempt that without Z-rated tires. I did drive at 60-70 mph across the country several times. There is no issue w/ the power of a slant unless something is wrong with the engine or fuel supply. To maintain steady speed requires maybe 1/3 of max hp. A V-8 would be for better acceleration or maintaining speed up steep hills, but you can always let it kick down to 2nd for that. After driving a new 1982 Chevy S-10 PU for 4 years while my Dart was disabled, I found it so much nicer to take a road trip in the Dart. Smooth and low to the ground, not rocking back and forth and bouncing stiffly like in that light truck.
 
The problem of asking that question on this board is that all the V8 guys will say dump the \6 and do X, Y, and Z. Also it has been stated, in another post, that the only feasible upgrade to the \6 is a 440. So I guess the small block guys are just wasting their time.

There is no reason that a '74 Duster with a \6 can't run at 80mph all day long, of course the WSP may think otherwise. If you car only can only do 60mph, then you have an engine problem. I would start with a basic tune up and compression check. It the check passes then I would start with the following.

After the above, I would do an exhaust system upgrade. I would go with the biggest pipe size that you can afford. I ran 2 1/2" on our old Duster and was impressed with the results. It was one of the most cost effective upgrades that I did.

Next on the list would be a distributor recurve. You can find the springs and instructions on slantsix.org. Another excellent upgrade as the stock curve is crap.

Finally, find a SuperSix manifold and upgrade to a 2v system. I would not waste my time with a BBD.They are worn out and remanufactured ones are crap. I would go with a Autolite 2100 - 1.08 size or a new Holley 2300 - 350cfm.

While not engine related, I would put a shift kit into the transmission. It does make a difference.

After those mod's are done, you will have a nice responsive car that will do the 80mph and even get good gas mileage.

Those drum brakes were marginal 40 years ago and they haven't gotten any better. Do a disk brake, BBP upgrade. You will be happy with the results.
 
kesteb said:
The problem of asking that question on this board is that all the V8 guys will say dump the \6 and do X, Y, and Z. Also it has been stated, in another post, that the only feasible upgrade to the \6 is a 440. So I guess the small block guys are just wasting their time.

There is no reason that a '74 Duster with a \6 can't run at 80mph all day long, of course the WSP may think otherwise. If you car only can only do 60mph, then you have an engine problem. I would start with a basic tune up and compression check. It the check passes then I would start with the following.

After the above, I would do an exhaust system upgrade. I would go with the biggest pipe size that you can afford. I ran 2 1/2" on our old Duster and was impressed with the results. It was one of the most cost effective upgrades that I did.

Next on the list would be a distributor recurve. You can find the springs and instructions on slantsix.org. Another excellent upgrade as the stock curve is crap.

Finally, find a SuperSix manifold and upgrade to a 2v system. I would not waste my time with a BBD.They are worn out and remanufactured ones are crap. I would go with a Autolite 2100 - 1.08 size or a new Holley 2300 - 350cfm.

Will not engine related, I would put a shift kit into the transmission. It does make a difference. After those mod's are done, you will have a nice responsive car that will do the 80mph and even get good gas mileage.

Those drum brakes were marginal 40 years ago and they haven't gotten any better. Do a disk brake, BBP upgrade. You will be happy with the results.
Click to expand...

I'm going to start even more simple...I still need to transfer title! My in-laws mailed the signed title to me earlier this week so that'll get done tomorrow.

I'll start on some tune up work (there is much to be done), but I'm going to focus on the brakes first. I think calling those brakes "marginal" is very kind of you. I find them frightening!

So, once it stops and the tune up (including recurve) is done, I'll see how things are going. If I'm pull the exhaust to go to duals, as I'd like to, and the intake to beef that up a bit, I may go a bit deeper and pull the head. Have a few thou shaved isn't expensive and having the valve guides and seats looked at wouldn't be a bad deal either. It would be a good excuse to make sure everything is adjusted correctly too. I'd reassemble with the new intake and exhaust!

The last time I did this I was in my late teens/early 20s and that '63 Nova was my daily driver, when it ran. It's nice not caring if the car is out of commission for a month or how ever long it takes, this time around. Now if I can just keep my work van and very high mileage Subaru running for awhile longer!
 
Ray's Auto Machine on 112th and Evergreen know how to build \6's and are not afraid to mill .10 off a cylinder head or block. AA Muffler on 4th Ave and Evergreen can run a BIG exhaust without charging a fortuane.

I have used both with good results. Ray's went above and beyond and fixed problems that I caused.
 
kesteb said:
Ray's Auto Machine on 112th and Evergreen know how to build \6's and are not afraid to mill .10 off a cylinder head or block. AA Muffler on 4th Ave and Evergreen can run a BIG exhaust without charging a fortuane.

I have used both with good results. Ray's went above and beyond and fixed problems that I caused.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the recommendations! They're both practically around the corner from me. I assume you meant Jay's not Ray's? I assume that's the place with all the blocks in the window. Kinda looks like a fun place! I've been looking for a decent exhaust shop for another reason too, less complicated, but still needed, so I imagine that referral will get used sooner then I'll get to the Darts exhaust.
 
I have a 77 dodge d200 (3/4 ton) that had no trouble running 80 with a 16 trailer behind it. At that time the /6 in it had over 300.000 miles and showed no signs of having been opened! Later, due to a cracked vacuum booster hose, I burned a hole in #6 big enough to stick my thumb through. It was a dog getting up to speed but it would run 65-70 PULLING THE TRAILER UPHILL! 80 mph in a sedan with a /6 should not be a problem if it is tuned right.
 
I'll add my .02 having owned a few '74 and '75 slant cars. They will do 80 and then some. 100 is about the limit and it takes time to get there. (not recommending this or anything, just for information)

On the Engine. Do the tune up and valve adjustment first. See what the spark plugs and cap have to show you. If the valves are out of adjustment (and they may not be) it will effect effective compression. Then rework the timing curve. Use the best (quickest) curves for a 6 with EGR (like the feather duster) or if your plugging the EGR, then use a non-EGR curve. Some factory curves are good, just not the early EGR ones. Do HEI later if you want - most of the performance is in the curve, not the trigger and coil.

Exhaust - My recollection is that '74 was cat equiped. Pretty much all factory catalytic converters were restrictive 'til the mid 80s.... There are high flow cats available now; so if it needs one, a high flow model will be a big improvement over stock.

Brakes - Whether its disks or drums, do some home work and get the linings with a good friction rating. The linings are stamped on the edge a friction code, ee, ff, fg. Its a crude system but about all the consumer has to go by. For drums, I'm a big fan of semi-metallic but they are harder to find. My experience has been they do well both cold and warmed up. For drums, also watch out for incorrect shoe styles. Sometimes the replacement stuff is wrong. If the correct ones are stamped 331, then that's what you want, not some substitute that may fit but the springs etc won't be in the right spots.
Also, bleed the entire system. Old fluid has absorbed moisture and will be rusty.

Suspension - If it doesn't have, put a front sway bar on it. This, and a decent alignment with good tires are the best basic upgrades you can do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top