Megasquirt Options For Turbo 318

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T56MaxTorq

T56MaxTorq

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Hey guys, getting close to needing a FI setup for my stock 318 short block build. Here are the specs:

Stock 318 magnum block and pistons with arp rod bolts, fresh hone and .030 ring gap w/ cast rings
Hughes Iron Ram magnum heads w/ stock valve train and pushrods, arp head bolts
Hughes springs what will work well with my cam
Comp cam hyd roller with 115 LSA, .490 lift w/ 1.6's, 218/218 duration @.050
Stock barrel intake with a hughes kit to fix the common oil leak
40 lb. high impedance injectors
Chinese T-70 turbo, .70 a/r
Dakota exhaust manifolds
Tial 38mm wastegate, turbonetics BOV
Haven't decided on an intercooler yet

Car specs are:

73 Duster, Rebuilt 904 trans w/ 5 disc front clutch pack
2800 stall converter
3.55 SG rear end
Tire size is undecided

Need some help picking the right FI system. Megasquirt is awesome but need some input on which one to get. I can solder everything myself to save money. Anybody running MS1 with a turbo with good results? The main difference between MS1 and MS3 is that MS3 can run a lot more outputs and fire 8 injectors separately, while MS1 is a little bit more limited output wise and can only fire injectors bank to bank. And I'm not sure if MS1 can retard boost timing
 
You could use MS1 with batch firing. I think with the MS1-Extra code, you can do timing retard. I've used MS1 on a bike doing 9000rpm. Not a problem.
 
You could potentially walk the line with an MS2 setup as well. The MS2-Extra is pretty capable and has a lot of the features of the MS3 but with less outputs. I'm running that now on my 5.7 swap (no boost, but shouldn't be too much different).
 
I nearly went MS2, but ended up with a Holley HP computer. The computer alone with harness, and it came with MAP and temp sensor and a couple of other things was about 1300 I believe.

I already had a TBI, and if I ever go multiport, intend to piece that together. I actually bought a new / unused HP computer later off ebay for a spare for 600
 
Microsquirt is pretty capable too in a very small package. Only downside is that it cannot control IAC, and is batch fire like MS1/MS2. Over in chevyland, denmah (LS1Tech.com) has successfully used Microsquirt to control a turbo LS small block. All of these variants have programmable timing control...
 
Personally, I think sequential is way overated. Especially with a turbo, the turbo "mixes" stuff up. Hell, your carb isn't sequential, is it? Well? Is it?
 
67Dart273 said:
Personally, I think sequential is way overated. Especially with a turbo, the turbo "mixes" stuff up. Hell, your carb isn't sequential, is it? Well? Is it?
Click to expand...

Good point!

I was quoted about $800 for an entire MS3 setup excluding a wideband O2 sensor. MS3 also has an ignition/fuel cut safety feature which could be helpful when I get the itch of turning up boost.
 
What I don't like about Megasquirt:

I think it's gotten way too expensive for "what it is" and I don't think the improvements, support, and documentation is what it should be

What I like about MS

It's very configurable in many ways, can be custom modified if you are smart enough, and could be repaired as it's "open."

If you buy whatever the latest optional software is for MS, it's "self learning with the software" but not native in the ECU

====================================

What I don't like about Holley

A little too "Chevyish" in some ways, and lack of open information. A good example is their optional display gauge for O2 AF. They left the dammed wire out of the harness!!!! ONE WIRE!!!! Here's what I think: This is probably the same gauge scale as I already had for my Innovate wideband, but I'd have to dredge up a wire connector for the ECU connector to find out!!!

Also the ECU is sealed, AKA not repairable, unless you want to 'dig in' yourself. This might be difficult, as Holley sure as 'ell is not gonna document it, and THEY won't fix it, either

What I DO like about the Holley

People who use it give it glowing terms. It's VERY versitile and configurable, and the software works well. The same HP computer is used on several systems, and just like MS, it can "do" TBI, batch, bank to bank, sequential, and handle several types of ignitions

(The Dominator computer is even more sophistocatedl, I don't exactly know the differences)

The Holley ECU is native self learning, that is, you can "turn that on" and you do not need the computer hooked up to allow it to correct.
 
I have an MS2 (MS1 chipped) and it should handle just about anything I can throw at it. You got 40lb injectors? You are good on size as 28 lb are good for ~300 HP. My MS2 upgrade chip was $20 bucks and my MS1 kit was $100. bank or batch/semi seq (1 or 2-4 ch) is plenty, Sequential is only sequential until about 2800 RPM then it becomes "batch" as its squirting at a closed valve, just like batch. And you need a cam position sensor to run Sequential, and thats sloppy through the chain. Semi (bank) and batch dont need a CamP/S. Sequential is more for emissions. Hell, F1 fogs their intakes from about 12 inches away! Im doing up a 273 with the same logs and spec turbo you got but will be blowing through a marine AFB. Rock on!
Free Self tuning? I think the Tunerstudio with the $50 upgrade opens the self tuner option, check it out first. And their whole "open source" has become quite narrow. That pushed me toward my $150 DIYEFi.org Jaguar 0.6 board. Now that is totally open source but you are expected to pretty much tinker with it and report back on the forum as to what works and what doesnt (and deal with a rather dry Euro admin) It will run as designed about on par with an MS3 but without data logging or bluetooth, also has way more limited trigger options.
 
Granted I was shopping for NA computers, so this isn't quite as relevant, but I was originally looking at the FAST EZ-EFI setup and one of their multiport kits that's just the computer and a harness. Saves the money on the TBI manifold which was the main kicker for me to help keep costs down, but ended up stumbling on an MS2 setup for a deal I couldn't pass up. Got what I called a "fuel inject a smallblock Mopar in a box" setup that was everything, fuel pump, injectors, intake, wiring, computer, wideband O2, etc. Sold off the parts I didn't need and reworked the wiring to go on my 5.7, so in the long run I probably paid less than $500 for the whole fuel injection setup.

I've debated upgrading the chip to an MS3x, but just don't think the benefits are there for me. I have an MSD running the ignition already, so it would be more hassle to splice the cam signal and rework my injector harness for the limited sequential benefit. The only thing I wish the MS2 had more of was general I/O native to the board. I know I can go with a separate CAN bus board, but haven't felt like tackling that one yet. It would just be more of a novelty to have extra sensor input into the computer for data logging.
 
I'm tellin' ya. I'm tellin' ya. I think too many of ya are hung too much on sequential. There's a LOT of stuff running out there that is not. And it runs GOOD. It runs just FINE. From what I've read, there probably is not much mileage or HP gain, either one, from sequential, and ESPECIALLY since none of us have the engineering facilities of the OEM

From what I've read, the real gains on sequential are emissions, idle quality, and low / med speed driveability and low / med speed mileage.

But MISTAKES in sequential setup can cause you HUGE problems
 
I agree that sequential doesn't make much difference from a performance standpoint. I think the big push for it really was because of tightening emissions standards for OEMs. With a boosted application especially I'd think you'd see even less benefit. Going to have plenty of air and fuel going into that engine already.
 
If that's the case, I'm going with MS2 and have full control of ignition timing while under boost.
 
I came VERY close to buying an MS2, and may yet to play with.

MS SERIOUSLY needs to consider gelling their info pages into a more cohesive and understandable, logical "plan."

I've got a fair amount of electronics under my belt, but even I have trouble figuring out which way to jump. Trying to print all the HTML jibber jabber is a PITA
 
Yeah MS is so adaptable to nearly any application or fuel type it makes it hard to figure out what to install and hook up for your combo. I've basically just copied other similar combos, asked a lot of questions, and now just need to wire it up and get running.

I bought the MS2 ecu, wiring, IAT/CLT sensors, MS boost control mod, MS stimulator, all of which totaled about $550 minus the wideband o2 which I already have.
 
67Dart273 said:
I'm tellin' ya. I'm tellin' ya. I think too many of ya are hung too much on sequential. There's a LOT of stuff running out there that is not. And it runs GOOD. It runs just FINE. From what I've read, there probably is not much mileage or HP gain, either one, from sequential, and ESPECIALLY since none of us have the engineering facilities of the OEM

From what I've read, the real gains on sequential are emissions, idle quality, and low / med speed driveability and low / med speed mileage.

But MISTAKES in sequential setup can cause you HUGE problems
Click to expand...

sequential is good because the injector isn't firing fuel into a intake runner/towards a vavle that doesn't need it, in other words when that cylinder needs fuel there is going to be a couple of cycles of fuel sitting outside of a valve waiting to open

couple seconds before valve opens the injector fires and that's it! fuel mileage has gone up as well as oil change intervals because of more precise fuel management
 
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