No power at key

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Eljay

Eljay

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Hi all, my Dart 340/4 speed will not start and there is very little power to the accessories (very dim headlights and very slow wipers etc.) The battery is fully charged and a multimeter shows voltage at the battery connections, starter relay, alternator, ballast resistor and at the "J" connection at the bulkhead. My next step is to check the ignition switch but I don't know how to access/remove it. Would a faulty ignition switch cause the above issues? Any input would be much appreciated.
Thanks, Eljay
 
Have you checked your starter?Maybe have someone give it a whack while your holding the key in the on position?If this is your problem,replace with a mini-starter from 90ish Dakota.Much better than the big one.JMO.
 
Check the battery cables. A bad ignition switch can't cause dim headlights
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I do have a new mini-starter and it has only been used to start the car monthly for the last year or so. The car started fine until last week and all lights etc. worked OK. The battery posts showed 12 volts and then I tested the cables (attached to the posts) and they showed 12 volts. So the starter and starter-relay are new but I'll try whacking the starter just in case it's faulty. I tend to agree that there may be a bad ground or a short somewhere and as I'm not an electrical whiz I'll keep trying different things. Maybe I tested the battery connections wrong?
 
seeing 12 volts doesn't mean there is sufficient amps. Got a ohm meter and check resistance in the path(s).
 
WHAT year/ model is your vehicle?

VERY first thing I'd do is yank the battery posts off and CLEAN them. CLEAN. Put them back on tight

If the problem still exists, FIND the problem using the "voltage drop" method.

Let's say you cleaned the battery terminals so now do this:

Turn on the headlights, verify "they are dim."

Put one probe of your meter DIRECTLY onto the BATTERY NEGATIVE POST and the other probe on the block. Should measure VERY little voltage, the less the better. Zero is perfect, anything over a TENTH (.1V) is way too much

Leave one probe on the battery negative post, transfer the other "stab" into clean metal up near the headlights onto the unibody metal. Once again, you are looking for a LOW or zero reading.

If that is OK, make sure the headlights are "still dim."

Now stab one probe DIRECTLY onto the battery POSITIVE POST, and the other on the large exposed stud on the starter relay. Once again, zero or maybe .1V, higher is bad

If that is OK, Find the terminal on your bulkhead terminal that is fed by the fused link off the starter relay stud. If that is OK, and the headlights are still dim, it PROBABLY is internal in the bulkhead connector. Time to go inside the car, if you can reach it, and probe this same feed terminal in the bulkhead connector INSIDE the car.

If that is bad, time to yank the connector apart. If good, try to get a clip lead onto the ammeter posts, one at a time. Once again, you are measuring from the battery POSITIVE POST to first one, then the other, ammeter posts.

If that is good (zero or very low drop) post back, we have harness problems
 
67Dart273 said:
WHAT year/ model is your vehicle?

VERY first thing I'd do is yank the battery posts off and CLEAN them. CLEAN. Put them back on tight

If the problem still exists, FIND the problem using the "voltage drop" method.

Let's say you cleaned the battery terminals so now do this:

Turn on the headlights, verify "they are dim."

Put one probe of your meter DIRECTLY onto the BATTERY NEGATIVE POST and the other probe on the block. Should measure VERY little voltage, the less the better. Zero is perfect, anything over a TENTH (.1V) is way too much

Leave one probe on the battery negative post, transfer the other "stab" into clean metal up near the headlights onto the unibody metal. Once again, you are looking for a LOW or zero reading.

If that is OK, make sure the headlights are "still dim."

Now stab one probe DIRECTLY onto the battery POSITIVE POST, and the other on the large exposed stud on the starter relay. Once again, zero or maybe .1V, higher is bad

If that is OK, Find the terminal on your bulkhead terminal that is fed by the fused link off the starter relay stud. If that is OK, and the headlights are still dim, it PROBABLY is internal in the bulkhead connector. Time to go inside the car, if you can reach it, and probe this same feed terminal in the bulkhead connector INSIDE the car.

If that is bad, time to yank the connector apart. If good, try to get a clip lead onto the ammeter posts, one at a time. Once again, you are measuring from the battery POSITIVE POST to first one, then the other, ammeter posts.

If that is good (zero or very low drop) post back, we have harness problems
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips, I'll try them on Friday. The car is a 1970 Dart Swinger 340. I've had the car for 41 years so am not surprised that there could be wiring issues lol.
 
Eljay said:
The car is a 1970 Dart Swinger 340. .
Click to expand...

Thanks, I thought "we" here had a service manual that would help you, but no '70 at this point, or do you have one?

There are some wiring diagrams here, but they lack some of the detail:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

70 Duster:

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1970/70ValiantDusterA.JPG

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1970/70ValiantDusterB.JPG

I have a paper '70 shop manual, if you need photos of certain pages I can post 'em here
 
Yes, I have the manual on a cd and have been looking at the relevant diagrams even though not fully understanding the test methods. As mentioned, I can't get back at the car until the weekend when I'll try all the tips. Also, where would I upload the manual to?
 
Hi there, I have performed all the tests that you suggested with the exception of the ammeter test and here is what I found: zero volts. However, the bulkhead connector slots were ugly at the "J" (fusible link) & "P" (10 or 12 gauge black) slots so I hardwired them together under the dash thereby bypassing the bulkhead connector and bulkhead. Made no difference. I believe that these 2 wires connect to the ammeter. I am waiting for my son to come over on Tuesday so that he can help me with the ammeter test. In the meantime, should I use a lighted circuit tester to check all of the connections under the hood? As stated, no electrical pro here lol. Re the service manual...will send PM.
 
OK, let me confirm, you checked last:

One probe on the battery positive

other probe first on one, then the other ammeter terminals

AND lights are on "and dim" and it shows zero volts?

and still no power things like heater blower, from the key?

If this is so, we need to confirm a couple of things:

THIS TIME clip one meter probe first to one, then the other ammeter post

Clip the other to a good ground.

Confirm that lights are dim, and measure this voltage

Try the key in accessory, run, start, while watching the meter, and try accesssories like wiper, heater blower, etc.
 
pettybludart said:
Have you checked your starter?Maybe have someone give it a whack while your holding the key in the on position?If this is your problem,replace with a mini-starter from 90ish Dakota.Much better than the big one.JMO.
Click to expand...
If your starter does not have those big screws around the starter motor frame you DO NOT want to hit it with a hammer . Ever! You can damage it. In the old days we can do that. Not now. Not with newer, and smaller starters. You can crack the motor frame, and damage your armature, commutator, and field coils which can be mounted on the starter housing which you do NOT want to ever hit with a hammer if there are no big head philip screws in it.
 
VERY first thing I'd do is yank the battery posts off and CLEAN them. CLEAN. Put them back on tight - clean and tight

If the problem still exists, FIND the problem using the "voltage drop" method.

Let's say you cleaned the battery terminals so now do this:

Turn on the headlights, verify "they are dim." - still dim

Put one probe of your meter DIRECTLY onto the BATTERY NEGATIVE POST and the other probe on the block. Should measure VERY little voltage, the less the better. Zero is perfect, anything over a TENTH (.1V) is way too much - zero

Leave one probe on the battery negative post, transfer the other "stab" into clean metal up near the headlights onto the unibody metal. Once again, you are looking for a LOW or zero reading. - zero

If that is OK, make sure the headlights are "still dim." - still dim

Now stab one probe DIRECTLY onto the battery POSITIVE POST, and the other on the large exposed stud on the starter relay. Once again, zero or maybe .1V, higher is bad - zero

If that is OK, Find the terminal on your bulkhead terminal that is fed by the fused link off the starter relay stud. If that is OK, and the headlights are still dim, it PROBABLY is internal in the bulkhead connector. Time to go inside the car, if you can reach it, and probe this same feed terminal in the bulkhead connector INSIDE the car. zero but had to hardwire

If that is bad, time to yank the connector apart. If good, try to get a clip lead onto the ammeter posts, one at a time. Once again, you are measuring from the battery POSITIVE POST to first one, then the other, ammeter posts. - have not done this yet but should the wire come off the post before connecting the clip? it's very tight up there and will be difficult to place a clip...can I stab the wire near the post for a reading?
 
Eljay said:
yank the connector apart. If good, try to get a clip lead onto the ammeter posts, one at a time. Once again, you are measuring from the battery POSITIVE POST to first one, then the other, ammeter posts. - have not done this yet but should the wire come off the post before connecting the clip? it's very tight up there and will be difficult to place a clip...can I stab the wire near the post for a reading?
Click to expand...

No need to disconnect at this time, and OK to stab into wherever you can make connection. Frankly, at this point it might make sense to pull out the cluster. On some cars it's easy to drop the column onto the seat for clearance. Just remove the bolts at the big floor flange, and the two or three clamping the column to the bottom of the dash, and it can sit on the seat. Now you'll have room to pull the dash out, and get to the back. Don't pull to hard on the PC board connectors. Do this, of course, with the battery ground unhooked. Wish I could get up there to help you.
 
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