Not cranking over but will with relay but now no spark

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Originalowner73 340duster

Originalowner73 340duster

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Had intermittent problem with key not cranking .and starter sticking on until I removed battery terminal.. thought it was relay because it started at first when I jumped it.. started fine a few times with new relay.but now same problem..turn key to on .jump relay and will crank but now no spark..just got new battery for multimeter.. going to start testing some components..any one run into this problem.. Shirley I'm not the first..any input appreciated..I'm not a electric wiz..but not fully dumb..lol
 
Sounds more like an ignition switch issue. Sounds like the contacts are not releasing and continuing to send power if the starter continues to run after you pull the key. If the switch is bad it will also have no spark. Its probably full of corrosion which is causing some trigger switches to not engage and others to stay engaged.
 
aeonmcallister said:
Sounds more like an ignition switch issue. Sounds like the contacts are not releasing and continuing to send power if the starter continues to run after you pull the key. If the switch is bad it will also have no spark. Its probably full of corrosion which is causing some trigger switches to not engage and others to stay engaged.
Click to expand...
Thought of that .did replace the key before I took of road many years ago because key was worn out and wouldn't engage tumblers..so it's not that old ..will def pull steering wheel to chk tho
 
Originalowner73 340duster said:
Thought of that .did replace the key before I took of road many years ago because key was worn out and wouldn't engage tumblers..so it's not that old ..will def pull steering wheel to chk tho
Click to expand...

The key part is fine. Its the switch itself that I believe is your problem. The internals of this are probably gummed up or corded.

1970-1976 Plymouth Duster Ignition Switch - Steering - Standard Motor Products 70-76 Duster Ignition Switch - 16685-05065742 - PartsGeek
 
Originalowner73 340duster said:
Is there a way to bypass the ignition switch without pulling all apart. I'm trying to find info online now but figured I'd ask
Click to expand...


Im sure if you had a wiring diag and some homemade cable loops you could disconnect it at the base of the column and bridge the wires at the connector to test the functionality.
 
aeonmcallister said:
Im sure if you had a wiring diag and some homemade cable loops you could disconnect it at the base of the column and bridge the wires at the connector to test the functionality.
Click to expand...
Yes I'm trying that.. found a few wiring diagram..but are bit fuzzy.. asking a friend to print one out
Since I have no printer
 
Ok found no power going to ignition switch.. switch looks good and connector looks good just no power. going to do more test tomorrow hopefully I can trace where I'm loosing power..got new multimeter ... tomorrow is a new day..also weird that this happened after I warmed up and ran till it fully warmed up.. maybe cooked a wire on hot surface..will be under car and all over tomorrow.. maybe I overlooked something today..also should have some new components by end of week..free of charge .... always a plus.. thanks again for everyones help!!
 
You can download a shop manual and aftermarket wiring diagrams free from MyMopar. I've posted that at least a thousand times

Access the ignition switch connector where it comes out of the column and start from there with a meter/ test lamp

73 shop manual is first year that Ma "reworked" the diagrams for A bodies, for the better or worse, LOL

Start on page 8-153, the index, find "ignition switch" and notice coordinates "B 10" which works like a map on the page edges

Notice the switch has oblong circles "CI-5" This means "connector, instrument panel, no.5" Scroll down to page 8-167 and you'll find a layout of "CI-5" there

NOTICE!!! This is not drawn exactly correct!!! The YELLOW start wire and the BROWN bypass wire DO NOT CONNECT to the same terminal. They actually are TWO SEPARATE SWITCHES in the same housing, IE they are isolated from each other

73switch.jpg


This pictures your switch connector as it looks, notice the "pointy end."

The J1-12 RED is power coming in is hot all the time and IS NOT FUSED

Q2 -12 black is switched accessory power feeding FROM the key TO the accessory buss in the fuse panel. Hot in "acc" and "run."

J2-12 Dark BLue is the "ignition run" voltage from the key, through the bulkhead ......to ignition, alternator field, voltage regulator and smog devices under the hood. Hot ONLY IN RUN, and cold in "crank"

J3-12BRown IS THE COIL RESISTOR BYPASS and IS THE ONLY SOURCE OF POWER for the ignition system in "crank." It comes from a SEPARATE switch contact at the key, through the bulkhead and goes to the coil + side of the ballast.



CI5.jpg
 
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67Dart273 said:
You can download a shop manual and aftermarket wiring diagrams free from MyMopar. I've posted that at least a thousand times

Access the ignition switch connector where it comes out of the column and start from there with a meter/ test lamp

73 shop manual is first year that Ma "reworked" the diagrams for A bodies, for the better or worse, LOL

Start on page 8-153, the index, find "ignition switch" and notice coordinates "B 10" which works like a map on the page edges

Notice the switch has oblong circles "CI-5" This means "connector, instrument panel, no.5" Scroll down to page 8-167 and you'll find a layout of "CI-5" there

NOTICE!!! This is not drawn exactly correct!!! The YELLOW start wire and the BROWN bypass wire DO NOT CONNECT to the same terminal. They actually are TWO SEPARATE SWITCHES in the same housing, IE they are isolated from each other

View attachment 1715137932

This pictures your switch connector as it looks, notice the "pointy end."

The J1-12 RED is power coming in is hot all the time and IS NOT FUSED

Q2 -12 black is switched accessory power feeding FROM the key TO the accessory buss in the fuse panel. Hot in "acc" and "run."

J2-12 Dark BLue is the "ignition run" voltage from the key, through the bulkhead ......to ignition, alternator field, voltage regulator and smog devices under the hood. Hot ONLY IN RUN, and cold in "crank"

J3-12BRown IS THE COIL RESISTOR BYPASS and IS THE ONLY SOURCE OF POWER for the ignition system in "crank." It comes from a SEPARATE switch contact at the key, through the bulkhead and goes to the coil + side of the ballast.



View attachment 1715137933
Click to expand...
Ok found it!!. Don't know how I overlooked it but it was the main connection of harness threw fire wall was burnt up..now to find a replacement or do I need a new harness??
 
You mean the fuse link? You can rebuild the harness if you need to, pull it out, string it out on plywood. You can get most of the terminals are known as "Packard 56" I got them from "clips and fasteners"

...........however I see the price has gone way way up from them.
 
67Dart273 said:
You mean the fuse link? You can rebuild the harness if you need to, pull it out, string it out on plywood. You can get most of the terminals are known as "Packard 56" I got them from "clips and fasteners"

...........however I see the price has gone way way up from them.
Click to expand...
Ok what do you use to make the fusable link..other wires can just drill holes and fit new connection..but one wire has a tag says fusable link..but just looks like a 10 guage wire with a tag affixed
 
You can find fuse able links in the help section at most parts stores. Is it burnt out?
 
70dustah said:
You can find fuse able links in the help section at most parts stores. Is it burnt out?
Click to expand...
Only the end is burnt wire still feels ok..all fusable link s I found in auto parts store was small guage and looked different...so I'm hoping just putting new end on it will be ok..I'm almost done.. going to finish rest of connections tomorrow ad hopefully I'll be ok..will attempt to start..if I get a stuck starter issue I'll stop I should have new mini starter by next weekend..
 
Also found a burnt wire to the alltinator that was rigged and replaced that as well..and found wire schematic and found one of the black wires that burnt goes to alltinator..and other side goes to ahmmeter.. thinking I should pull speedo out tomorrow and chk the meter guage and make sure that is ok as well
 
Originalowner73 340duster said:
Only the end is burnt wire still feels ok..all fusable link s I found in auto parts store was small guage and looked different...so I'm hoping just putting new end on it will be ok..I'm almost done.. going to finish rest of connections tomorrow ad hopefully I'll be ok..will attempt to start..if I get a stuck starter issue I'll stop I should have new mini starter by next weekend..
Click to expand...
Yes the fuseable link wire is of a smaller gauge than the rest of the wire, that's why it is the first point to melt. You can pull on it in the middle to see if it comes apart, or test it with a volt meter, or OHM meter on each end. You might want to perform this as many members here have. It's not very difficult to do. Catalog

Also the mini starter is great, but you can just pick up a starter for a 95 dodge Dakota ( not 100% sure of year and model ) do a search on here for the info, as many have posted on it, along with the MAD wiring upgrade.
There are some very knowledgeable people on here that can help you out with anything. Pay attention to 67dart273 as he can guide you through any issues,as he is the resident electrical guru on here in my opinion.
 
70dustah said:
Yes the fuseable link wire is of a smaller gauge than the rest of the wire, that's why it is the first point to melt. You can pull on it in the middle to see if it comes apart, or test it with a volt meter, or OHM meter on each end. You might want to perform this as many members here have. It's not very difficult to do. Catalog

Also the mini starter is great, but you can just pick up a starter for a 95 dodge Dakota ( not 100% sure of year and model ) do a search on here for the info, as many have posted on it, along with the MAD wiring upgrade.
There are some very knowledgeable people on here that can help you out with anything. Pay attention to 67dart273 as he can guide you through any issues,as he is the resident electrical guru on here in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Yes 67 dart has been very helpful..the wire tested ok.im almost ready to run it .. everyone is a great help..I'm learning so much on this car and in general ..it's great
 
Originalowner73 340duster said:
Yes 67 dart has been very helpful..the wire tested ok.im almost ready to run it .. everyone is a great help..I'm learning so much on this car and in general ..it's great
Click to expand...
Update!! I fixed all wires that I saw messed up.. started fine ..than stalled.. started again the starter stuck and I pulled battery lead..and starter shut off car kept running so I hooked cabel back up and let it run for a second ,checked battery and was charging at like 18.5 v while reeved up and over 16 when I let it come almost to idle and wires started getting warm so I shut down ..this all happened within couple of minutes..
 
YIKES

1....Make absolutely CERTAIN that voltage regulator is grounded

2....Pull both field wires off alternator and check continuity of alternator field terminals to ground. Should be "open" or infinity

3...Pull VR connector off, and check continuity of green field wire at alternator to ground. Should be open.

4...Make CERTAIN you have a ground jumper from either the battery or the engine block to the body. I like to use a no 4 "eye to eye" starter cable from the rear of the driver side head to say, a master cylinder stud

Access 12V "run" going to ballast. Clip your meter on there and the battery POS post. Turn the key to "run" and take a reading. Should be VERY low, the lower the better, less than .3V (3/10 of one volt). ANY voltage shown here is ADDED to the nominal 14V setting of the VR, that is, say your read 1.5V in this test. If the VR is properly regulating at 14, the 1.5 will cause the battery to "run" at 15.5

If all the above checks OK, replace the VR
 
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67Dart273 said:
YIKES

1....Make absolutely CERTAIN that voltage regulator is grounded

2....Pull both field wires off alternator and check continuity of alternator field terminals to ground. Should be "open" or infinity

3...Pull VR connector off, and check continuity of green field wire at alternator to ground. Should be open.

4...Make CERTAIN you have a ground jumper from either the battery or the engine block to the body. I like to use a no 4 "eye to eye" starter cable from the rear of the driver side head to say, a master cylinder stud

Access 12V "run" going to ballast. Clip your meter on there and the battery POS post. Turn the key to "run" and take a reading. Should be VERY low, the lower the better, less than .3V (3/10 of one volt). ANY voltage shown here is ADDED to the nominal 14V setting of the VR, that is, say your read 1.5V in this test. If the VR is properly regulating at 14, the 1.5 will cause the battery to "run" at 15.5

If all the above checks OK, replace the VR
Click to expand...
Ok made sure vr was grouned..green wire was off so I made sure it was connected good.. checked the field wires of alltinator..green beeped once and that's it ..blue one beeps continuously..pulled vr plug and green wire was open
 
67Dart273 said:
YIKES

1....Make absolutely CERTAIN that voltage regulator is grounded

2....Pull both field wires off alternator and check continuity of alternator field terminals to ground. Should be "open" or infinity

3...Pull VR connector off, and check continuity of green field wire at alternator to ground. Should be open.

4...Make CERTAIN you have a ground jumper from either the battery or the engine block to the body. I like to use a no 4 "eye to eye" starter cable from the rear of the driver side head to say, a master cylinder stud

Access 12V "run" going to ballast. Clip your meter on there and the battery POS post. Turn the key to "run" and take a reading. Should be VERY low, the lower the better, less than .3V (3/10 of one volt). ANY voltage shown here is ADDED to the nominal 14V setting of the VR, that is, say your read 1.5V in this test. If the VR is properly regulating at 14, the 1.5 will cause the battery to "run" at 15.5

If all the above checks OK, replace the VR
Click to expand...
Ballast has .5.- .6 v with key on.and one post had 5.6 v..with key off has battery v at all connection s of ballast
 
Thanks for your help
Originalowner73 340duster said:
Ballast has .5.- .6 v with key on.and one post had 5.6 v..with key off has battery v at all connection s of ballast
Click to expand...
67Dart273 said:
YIKES

1....Make absolutely CERTAIN that voltage regulator is grounded

2....Pull both field wires off alternator and check continuity of alternator field terminals to ground. Should be "open" or infinity

3...Pull VR connector off, and check continuity of green field wire at alternator to ground. Should be open.

4...Make CERTAIN you have a ground jumper from either the battery or the engine block to the body. I like to use a no 4 "eye to eye" starter cable from the rear of the driver side head to say, a master cylinder stud

Access 12V "run" going to ballast. Clip your meter on there and the battery POS post. Turn the key to "run" and take a reading. Should be VERY low, the lower the better, less than .3V (3/10 of one volt). ANY voltage shown here is ADDED to the nominal 14V setting of the VR, that is, say your read 1.5V in this test. If the VR is properly regulating at 14, the 1.5 will cause the battery to "run" at 15.5

If all the above checks OK, replace the VR
Click to expand...
 
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