Oil Pan question

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FlDart360

FlDart360

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1971 Dart Swinger with a 360LA. Would it be possible to remove the oil pan which is a standard Milodon 30755 with the engine still in the car? It looks like the steering linkage will need to be remove just for starters? Has anyone out there done this in the driveway on jack stands?
 
you may need to loosen the engine mounts and jack the engine up... However, getting the pan back up there without knocking the gaskets off location is difficult...
 
I did it on a 318 engine with a stock pan a few months ago.

I had to lower the steering link by disconnecting it from the steering gear & removing the bolt from the drag link, then it will drop / swing out of the way.

I also had to remove the starter & clutch inspection pans in my case.

Single exhaust, so I also had to loosen the Y pipe & rear muffler hanger for clearance.
 
You can do it but honestly in your driveway on jack stands... drop your k-member and support your engine.
SOOOO much easier to do about an hours worth of work to get the k-member down than jerk around with oil pan gaskets in that tight of space.
 
I agree with the mentioned difficulties & wouldn't do it that way if it were me. But "IF" you do decide to try it, you may also need to rotate the crank to get the front counterweights out of the way to pull the pan out. Hopefully the pan baffle doesn't get snagged by the pick-up tube.

I've always used oil pan studs to help keep the gaskets in place.
 
I've had success several times using some or all of the above methods, and even with the Milodon Roadrace pan.
I took the K down with the engine twice, having built a fixture to do this. Twice cuz; like a second-time pregnant wife forgets the pain of the first childbirth; so too I forgot the pain of dropping the K the first time around.And just like the wife said there will be no fourth child for her; there will be no third time K-drop for me.
To keep the engine up (you might have to pull the distributor first!), I just cut a short piece of 2x4 to jam between the K and whatever is convenient, above it.
One time I set up some blocking across the aprons, and chained the engine to that. Then dropped the K, but that was a friggen long time ago, and I forget why I even needed to do that; but I remember doin' it. It mightabin for frostplugs, IDK.
 
It looks like it is just a matter of what resources i can bring together. At least i know i can go from the bottom if need be.
 
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If you have a stock size oil pan 4.5 quarts can you install a high volume oil pump? Or do you need to have a larger pan that holds extra oil? sounds like a Jeopardy question.
 
A streeter is rarely WOT at high rpm for more than a couple of seconds at a time.
So, a stock type engine doesn't need an HV pump,nor a deep pan.
But; thinking like you are; and knowing I was gonna target 7000rpm, I did some oiling mods to help the rods live up there, so,lol,
I did put a 7qt pan on mine, with the HV pump. I thought it would be cheap insurance. That was over 100,000 miles ago.
 
Jeopardy question' LOL. The ONLY time an HV pump (or either pump for that matter) pumps more oil is when it puts more pressure into the engine's oiling system. The only time that happens is from idle up to where the pressure relief spring limits the pressure. So, at high RPM's, where either type of pump is putting out enough volume to raise the system backpressure to where it activates the relief spring, the HV pump will put the same amount of oil into the system as the standard one. Said another way, if the pump A has a 55 psi relief spring, and pump B has a 72 psi relief spring, then pump B will put more oil into the system, regardless of the pump type, once either is at high enough RPM.

So pick your pan based on the use (extended RPM time, car doing hard acceleration or cornering, needing baffles, higher oil usage mods, etc.) and maybe the relief spring, not so much the pump model IMHO. I've put in an HV and 72 psi relief spring with stock pan, with no worries. Not running lots of high RPM's, with some hard cornering but not constantly; I just like having higher pressures at the lower and mid RPM's.
 
Physically the rotors in the HV pumps are taller.
This means an HV pump often will contact the pan bottom before the gaskets do.
Best to trial fit.
 
I was able to drop the pan on my 72 Duster 340. Got the car up and secured with jack stands removed the steering linkage. Loosen the bolts and eased it down. Didn't even have to remove the headers. I did f'up the gasket the first time when rushed to get it done and it shifted on me. Let the thin coat of RTV set up longer the 2nd time and it worked. I did have to push raised part the inspection cover back towards the trans to get the back of the pan into position.

The HV pump cleared the 394 pan. But not sure about a 360 pan?

Be well,
Pat
 
nm9stheham said:
Jeopardy question' LOL. The ONLY time an HV pump (or either pump for that matter) pumps more oil is when it puts more pressure into the engine's oiling system. The only time that happens is from idle up to where the pressure relief spring limits the pressure. So, at high RPM's, where either type of pump is putting out enough volume to raise the system backpressure to where it activates the relief spring, the HV pump will put the same amount of oil into the system as the standard one. Said another way, if the pump A has a 55 psi relief spring, and pump B has a 72 psi relief spring, then pump B will put more oil into the system, regardless of the pump type, once either is at high enough RPM.

So pick your pan based on the use (extended RPM time, car doing hard acceleration or cornering, needing baffles, higher oil usage mods, etc.) and maybe the relief spring, not so much the pump model IMHO. I've put in an HV and 72 psi relief spring with stock pan, with no worries. Not running lots of high RPM's, with some hard cornering but not constantly; I just like having higher pressures at the lower and mid RPM's.
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Thanks it makes more sense now. I was thinking in my case with 3:55 gears and the occasional interstate driving to get to long distance car shows. That the higher RPM might suck the pan dry if you only had a stock pan.
 
My way of boiling it down is use a HV pump when clearances are large, or oil temperatures are very high.
That's when extra volume flowing is needed.
 
FlDart360 said:
Thanks it makes more sense now. I was thinking in my case with 3:55 gears and the occasional interstate driving to get to long distance car shows. That the higher RPM might suck the pan dry if you only had a stock pan.
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Seems doubtful but that is IMHO.... plenty of these engines have been cruised on the interstate with that gearing and stock pans forever. Our 340 has 3.55 gears and an HV pump and stock pan.... no oil pressure issues on the interstate. Some enlargements were done on oil passages, but the bearings are all stock designs.

Any higher oil flow is gonna depend on bearing clearances and such as noted. Do you have any mods like grooved cam bearings, or full groove mains, or other mods to increase oil flow and pressure?

And BTW, I HAVE pumped a pan dry on a different engine that did not have good regulation of oil flow to to the head. The relief valve was never opening and the pressure was going to over 100 psi hot! Race prep was short and I did not get the pressure gauge hooked up to know. But the engine ran 100+ miles no problem with quick bursts to 8000 RPM. It took a 1 minute run at 6000-7500 RPM to get the oil pan to go dry. Not an SBM....so YMMV.
 
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Well i spent the better part of Saturday taking the steering apart and pulling a very stubborn Pitman arm.It turned into a game of inches and after realizing that the engine would still need to be raised to drop the pan why not just pull the engine and use that as an excuse to change my steering box. My neighbor offered up his engine stand so that helped seal the deal.
 
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