Petronix questions

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DaisyDart

DaisyDart

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Hey guys,
So i bought a 1361A pertronix kit for my dizzy, and i have a couple questions.
I'm not quite sure what to do about the coil, she has her stock coil on her right now, but i'm wondering if i should go with the pertronix flame thrower one.
If you think i should, there is also the 1.5 ohms vs 3.0 ohms debate.
I did a huge amount of research on the difference, and still cant come up with an answer.
Opinions?
 
If you are not having a misfiring problem and are installing the Pertronix kit solely to replace the ignition points then you do not need to replace the coil. Any ignition coil will only output high enough voltage to ionize the fuel/air mixture in the spark plug gap and allow current to flow. The difference in the high-dollar coils in pretty colors is total energy output, which is essentially the sum of firing voltage plus burn time.
 
The recommended Blaster coil has a much higher spark output than the standard factory coil, and I think you would be impressed with it.
Personally I'd use an E core design coil and get rid of the ballast garbage all together.

(But I care a lot more about how it performs than how it looks under a classic Mopar hood.) :D
 
You do know that it states that is for a V6. Odd but may be described wrong.Unless that is the one you are looking for. I do know that they have Petronix I II III. The I you keep the stock coil and the ballast.The II you by pass the ballast and use the right ohm coil.The III also uses a special ohm coil.
 
I run an Ignitor II on my 273 with the original coil and it runs great. I'll upgrade to the Flamethrower eventually but for now it starts right up and runs well. I kept the spark plug gap at .035. When adding the Flamethrower, you can increase the gap to about .045 for a bigger spark.
 
TrailBeast said:
The recommended Blaster coil has a much higher spark output than the standard factory coil, and I think you would be impressed with it.
Personally I'd use an E core design coil and get rid of the ballast garbage all together.

(But I care a lot more about how it performs than how it looks under a classic Mopar hood.) :D
Click to expand...

A typical E-core coil only has 0.5 Ohms or less primary resistance. The Pertronix I, needs 3.0 Ohms total resistance. A ballast is needed, or it will go poof, nothing there to limit the current. The E-core coil would result in a saturation current of 28A. A standard coil and ballast about 4.7A. Most ignition coils are rated between 4 to 7A, so the coil could be damaged too.
 
I'm running the stock coil on my GTX also, with a Pertronix setup that is about 15 years old!! Might be one of the first ones sold, I think I bought it when they first came out! It's always run fine, no problems, and in stock form runs right at 14 flat!!
 
KitCarlson said:
A typical E-core coil only has 0.5 Ohms or less primary resistance. The Pertronix I, needs 3.0 Ohms total resistance. A ballast is needed, or it will go poof, nothing there to limit the current. The E-core coil would result in a saturation current of 28A. A standard coil and ballast about 4.7A. Most ignition coils are rated between 4 to 7A, so the coil could be damaged too.
Click to expand...

For some reason the ignitor I never entered the equation in my mind.
But then I have been a little brain dead lately.
 
Listen to trailbeast I would use his set up. Oh I do and love it.
 
tekslk said:
Listen to trailbeast I would use his set up. Oh I do and love it.
Click to expand...

Maybe not such a good time to listen to me, thanks.
I caught something that just tore me down, and I have almost no energy as well as not thinking very clearly (or even really wanting to try)
 
TrailBeast said:
For some reason the ignitor I never entered the equation in my mind.
But then I have been a little brain dead lately.
Click to expand...

I hope you get feeling better soon.

The equation is Ohms law, I = V/R. Without dwell control, using points or Pertronix, the coil is charged after a few milli seconds and the current is only limited by the series resistance of the circuit. This is the sum of the coil resistance , and ballast resistance. The V, is the supply voltage, I used 14V.

The HEI you use has a means of active dwell control, by controlling the coil charge interval at medium and high speeds, and a low speeds, a current limit by using the power switch in a linear mode. No ballast is required, for HEI.
 
I've had the pertronix 1 and pertronix 3.0 ohm coil for 12 years without any problems in my 64 valiant with slant 6


Using the 3.0 ohm coil allows you to get rid of the ballast resistor.

I talked to the pertronix tech, and the 3.0 ohm coil was recommended over the 1.5 ohm coil and ballast (even the pertronix 1.5 ohm coil, so they were selling a coil either way).

No problems starting either.


The pertronix 1 is the dumb box, it can't compensate for coil ohms, so make sure it adds up to 3.0....
 
TrailBeast said:
Maybe not such a good time to listen to me, thanks.
I caught something that just tore me down, and I have almost no energy as well as not thinking very clearly (or even really wanting to try)
Click to expand...

Oh so this means you're down to everybody else's level of intelligence now? lol

Hope you feel better.
 
I would recommend keeping to the 1.5 ohm coil and the correct OEM type of ballast resistor versus the 3 ohm coil. The reason is that when cold, the original type ballast resistor will be low (around .5-.6 ohms) and the charging current into the coil will be higher and will give more spark energy for better cold starts. Once operating, then the ballast warms up and its resistance increases to a bit over 2 ohms and the coil current reduces to normal running levels (that of a 3 ohm coil alone).

This is the way the original system was designed to work, for better cold spark energy. It will also compensate for extended high rev running, if the average dwell drops and thus coil current drops; the ballast resistance will lower and compensate for that to some extent.

The trick is to get the right ballast resistor for this. You need to find one that is near to .5-.6 ohms cold and a bit over 2 ohms hot. And OEM ballast does this, and MSD sells one that is .8 ohms cold. The BWD RU19 is around .6 ohm cold and about 3.5 ohms hot so is a fair replacement, but a common ballast sold to many folks (RU4) is 2 ohms cold and 7 ohms hot. No wonder people have ignition problems that go away when they change to a no-ballast system; the wrong ballast will lower spark energy big time. Don't listen to the parts guy when he says "don't worry, it will work"; I finally ran in to one parts guys who actually knew the resistance difference in a Mopar ballast.

BTW, I changed to a 1.5 ohm Flamethrower coil and cold starts are much better with that and the proper OEM ballast resistance. (I bought an actual NOS ballast.) But I suspect the old coil was getting weak so I am not certain that the Flamethrower is all that much better than a stock coil in good shape. The spark voltage ratings are 30-35kV for the original, and 40kV for the Flamethrower.
 
To re-iterate above, the original Pertronix Ignitor requires a ballast (or a "ballasted coil", i.e. >2 ohm). The Ignitor II & III do not require a ballast (modern electronics, like HEI).
 
RustyRatRod said:
Oh so this means you're down to everybody else's level of intelligence now? lol

Hope you feel better.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I hope I don't come across like that and that you are just jerking my chain.



nm9stheham said:
I would recommend keeping to the 1.5 ohm coil and the correct OEM type of ballast resistor versus the 3 ohm coil. The reason is that when cold, the original type ballast resistor will be low (around .5-.6 ohms) and the charging current into the coil will be higher and will give more spark energy for better cold starts. Once operating, then the ballast warms up and its resistance increases to a bit over 2 ohms and the coil current reduces to normal running levels (that of a 3 ohm coil alone).

This is the way the original system was designed to work, for better cold spark energy. It will also compensate for extended high rev running, if the average dwell drops and thus coil current drops; the ballast resistance will lower and compensate for that to some extent.

The trick is to get the right ballast resistor for this. You need to find one that is near to .5-.6 ohms cold and a bit over 2 ohms hot. And OEM ballast does this, and MSD sells one that is .8 ohms cold. The BWD RU19 is around .6 ohm cold and about 3.5 ohms hot so is a fair replacement, but a common ballast sold to many folks (RU4) is 2 ohms cold and 7 ohms hot. No wonder people have ignition problems that go away when they change to a no-ballast system; the wrong ballast will lower spark energy big time. Don't listen to the parts guy when he says "don't worry, it will work"; I finally ran in to one parts guys who actually knew the resistance difference in a Mopar ballast.

BTW, I changed to a 1.5 ohm Flamethrower coil and cold starts are much better with that and the proper OEM ballast resistance. (I bought an actual NOS ballast.) But I suspect the old coil was getting weak so I am not certain that the Flamethrower is all that much better than a stock coil in good shape. The spark voltage ratings are 30-35kV for the original, and 40kV for the Flamethrower.
Click to expand...

Personally I see zero reason to go through all this and prefer to eliminate the need for a lowered voltage system all together.
 
Understood; the older design system ignition can't ever go more than so much spark energy. But for the situations of not using HEI, my note was a bit of info sharing on how things should work with old system. I'll bet there are a few owners whose cars would run better just by putting in the right ballast.
 
nm9stheham said:
I'll bet there are a few owners whose cars would run better just by putting in the right ballast.
Click to expand...

I'd bet there are a few that would run better if the owner knew what a cylinder miss sounds like. :D
My neighbor's new to him car was completely dead on two out of 8 and he had no idea :D
 
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