Please help Me.."Overcharging"?

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Ruger64

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I replaced my alternator.
Now keep in mind that my factory one was working right, no problems.
Just the pulley separated, and broke.
But everything was charging properly, just changed it due to the bad pulley that broke.
I just bought one from advance. It is a 60 amp, instead of a 50 amp stock. Thats all they had.
I put up two video clips to show what its doing.
It idles around 17 volts.
And when I hit the throttle, it jumps up to almost 20 volts.
Even causing the radio to shut off when I idle up??
And the turn signals even flicker really fast when idling up, and headlights get too bright.
When I idle down the radio comes back on.
It seems to be discharging according to the dash gauge at idle.
It is way overcharging when I hit the throttle, or even at idle. I didn't have this problem before. Just a broken pulley is why it needed changed.
Please see videos below..

[ame=http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/PghGolden/20130313_135908_zpsd14982b2.mp4]
th_20130313_135908_zpsd14982b2.jpg
[/ame]

[ame=http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/PghGolden/20130313_140023_zpsf675f452.mp4]
th_20130313_140023_zpsf675f452.jpg
[/ame]



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are your connections still in good condition to the voltage regulator? are they cracked or broken?
 
younggun2.0 said:
are your connections still in good condition to the voltage regulator? are they cracked or broken?
Click to expand...

I can check. I didn't have this problem until I changed the alternator. Where is the regulator located?
 
You might want to read this thread. Page 3 mainly... posts by 67Dart273

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=225369&highlight=electrical

67Dart273 said:
"Voltage drop" is OFTEN what CAUSES this problem, here is how this works

===========================================================

FIRST

Depending on the car the wiring, the circuit path for the "ignition run" wire is:

Battery---fuse link---bulkhead--ammeter circuit---welded splice in the under dash harness---ignition switch connector---through the switch--back out the switch connector (on the "ignition run" or "IGN 1" wire) -- back through the bulkhead -- to the

ignition system

alternator field

AND REGULATOR IGN terminal.


Now I intentionally separated "stuff" up above with dashed lines. Every single object separated by dashed lines IS A SUSPECT for "voltage drop":

from the battery ---through all that---to the regulator IGN terminal.

WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT!!!??? You really should actually read a few of my posts, this has been addressed.

IF THIS chain, this circuit path, has a bad switch, loose connections, corrosion, the LOAD current put on this "ignition run" wire causes a VOLTAGE DROP between the BATTERY and the REGULATOR

Now, the regulator IGN terminal does MORE than "just power the regulator," it is also the VOLTAGE SENSING wire.

Every last bit of voltage drop, whether it is .1 (one tenth) or 1 (one volt) is ADDED to the regulator set point. This means that if the regulator is PROPERLY attempting to regulate at 13.8--14.2, and you have X drop in the harness, this voltage drop IS ADDED to the battery charging voltage.

============================================================

SECOND


The next part of the equation is (again with the voltage drop) DROP, VOLTAGE between the battery NEG terminal and the REGULATOR GROUND

If the regulator is not truly grounded to the battery, then "it" works just like harness drop, above. ANY drop between the NEG side of the regulator and the battery NEG is ALSO added to the charging voltage, just like above

=============================================================

To sum this all up. What are the main causes of overcharging?

1----Bad regulator, actually fairly rare. Most regulators either work or they don't

2---Voltage drop in the ignition harness/ charging line

3--Voltage drop in the regulator ground

4--In some cases a bad battery can cause this. Easily checked by simply swapping in a known good battery.
Click to expand...
 
you have the two field connectors on the alternator body itself. those wires will go to your voltage regulator. it will be a small metal box mounted on the firewall. follow the wires from the alternator to the regulator. if the connectors on the alternator end are not making good contact it will not be able to do its job.
 
This might be a bad alternator. Unhook the regulator connector at the regulator and see if it still charges. If it does, you have an issue "in" the alternator, either

A---wrong alternator

B---one field terminal is shorted to ground

C---A rebuilder has done you a disservice.
 
Could be as simple as one of the field connections on the back of the alt being grounded. to the case.
 
Okay, It got stranger.
I ran two new wires to the VR. The old ones seemed brittle. I put new connectors on, and everything.
Now, it quit charging completely.
I did leave out one thing.
For some reason when I went to pick up my new alternator. I had to remove one of the terminals off of my old alternator and put it in the new one.
I guess that is the brush on the springy thing that comes out.
I don't understand why it was missing one on the new one??
I just removed that old one, and it was not sticking out far enough to touch where it needed too, and also fell apart.
I am going to take it back and have them test it, and I am sure it won't charge. They need to get me another one, and have both new terminals on it, and actually work.
Why it was overcharging...I have no idea....Now....no charging...ugh!
 
Ruger64 said:
Okay, It got stranger.
I ran two new wires to the VR. The old ones seemed brittle. I put new connectors on, and everything.
Now, it quit charging completely.
I did leave out one thing.
For some reason when I went to pick up my new alternator. I had to remove one of the terminals off of my old alternator and put it in the new one.
I guess that is the brush on the springy thing that comes out.
I don't understand why it was missing one on the new one??
I just removed that old one, and it was not sticking out far enough to touch where it needed too, and also fell apart.
I am going to take it back and have them test it, and I am sure it won't charge. They need to get me another one, and have both new terminals on it, and actually work.
Why it was overcharging...I have no idea....Now....no charging...ugh!
Click to expand...

This is what I was wondering about when I posted the other post about being grounded to the case.
 
Ruger64 said:
For some reason when I went to pick up my new alternator. I had to remove one of the terminals off of my old alternator and put it in the new one.
I guess that is the brush on the springy thing that comes out.
I don't understand why it was missing one on the new one??
I just removed that old one, and it was not sticking out far enough to touch where it needed too, and also fell apart.
I!
Click to expand...

READ MY POST!!!!!

then read this!!!

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=201739
 
Ruger64 said:
For some reason when I went to pick up my new alternator. I had to remove one of the terminals off of my old alternator and put it in the new one.
I guess that is the brush on the springy thing that comes out.
I don't understand why it was missing one on the new one??
I just removed that old one, and it was not sticking out far enough to touch where it needed too, and also fell apart.
I!
Click to expand...

READ MY POST!!!!!


67Dart273 said:
This might be a bad alternator. Unhook the regulator connector at the regulator and see if it still charges. If it does, you have an issue "in" the alternator, either

A---wrong alternator

B---one field terminal is shorted to ground

C---A rebuilder has done you a disservice.
Click to expand...


then read this!!!

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=201739
 
Okay, this was their fault, and mine.
I took the alternator back. They tested it, and he said it was fine! Okay, but wait!
He only hooked to the nut, and one male spade. He didn't use the other one. "The one I added".
I told him I had to use both spades, since my VR had two wires coming from them and both hooked to the alternator.
Since I added the extra brush to the one that was empty. I was doubling my voltage. With the extra brush that the alternator didn't want.
WRONG ALTERNATOR
He ordered me the right one that comes with TWO male spades for the way my VR hooks to it.
I hope this all made sense. Sorry for the confusion. I was doubling my voltage by adding the other brush where there wasn't one from the factory on this alt they gave me.
Where is the ground from the motor to frame suppose to be?
 
Actually you were causing the alternator to charge wide open (unregulated)

Glad it was an easy solution.
 
TrailBeast said:
Actually you were causing the alternator to charge wide open (unregulated)

Glad it was an easy solution.
Click to expand...

Yes exactly. I am sure that was the problem. Makes sense. I have to wait for 7 days for the right one to come in. I knew something was odd when they pulled that new one out, and it was missing a brush/spade.
I just popped my old one out, and put it in, since there was a space for it, so I had two brushes.
My dumbness there. The manager is the one that figure it out tonight, and said...WTF are you guys doing? He needs the one with two spades from the factory. He was overcharging with the wrong alternator. ugh!!!!!
 
Ruger64 said:
Okay, this was their fault, and mine. I was doubling my voltage by adding the other brush where there wasn't one from the factory on this alt they gave me.
Where is the ground from the motor to frame suppose to be?
Click to expand...


You were not "doubling" anything. Please read what I posted. Here is the issue:

On early (69/ earlier) systems with ONE field connection, the regulator FEEDS power to the field

On 70/ later systems where the alternator has TWO field connections, the ignition switch FEEDS power to ONE END of the field, and the remaining field connection "is to controlled to ground" by the regulator

IF YOU get

1--Either an early alternator (one field)

2--Or a late alternator with a SHORTED field connector,

3--or one of the rebuilts which I posted a photo of in the other thread, AND you hook the ignition feed (blue wire) to the "good" end of the field, the OTHER END of the field will be grounded, causing full unregulated output.

IN ADDITION if you are so unfortunate as to have a 70/ later alternator, with ONE BRUSH shorted, and you just happen to hook the blue wire to that shorted terminal, you will cause A LOT of harness damage, because the feed to that blue wire IS NOT FUSED.
 
67Dart273 said:
You were not "doubling" anything. Please read what I posted. Here is the issue:

On early (69/ earlier) systems with ONE field connection, the regulator FEEDS power to the field

On 70/ later systems where the alternator has TWO field connections, the ignition switch FEEDS power to ONE END of the field, and the remaining field connection "is to controlled to ground" by the regulator

IF YOU get

1--Either an early alternator (one field)

2--Or a late alternator with a SHORTED field connector,

3--or one of the rebuilts which I posted a photo of in the other thread, AND you hook the ignition feed (blue wire) to the "good" end of the field, the OTHER END of the field will be grounded, causing full unregulated output.

IN ADDITION if you are so unfortunate as to have a 70/ later alternator, with ONE BRUSH shorted, and you just happen to hook the blue wire to that shorted terminal, you will cause A LOT of harness damage, because the feed to that blue wire IS NOT FUSED.
Click to expand...

Oh wonderful. I have a 1971...
I was trying to read all of this from my phone in the garage earlier. So it was hard to see.
If I did cause severe damage, it will be on the craiglist if this alternator don't fix it. I will know when it gets here in 8 days. Now I am concerned of all that may be really wrong now. Damn shame. Car ran great till this incident.
 
Ruger64 said:
Oh wonderful. I have a 1971...
I was trying to read all of this from my phone in the garage earlier. So it was hard to see.
If I did cause severe damage, it will be on the craiglist if this alternator don't fix it. I will know when it gets here in 8 days. Now I am concerned of all that may be really wrong now. Damn shame. Car ran great till this incident.
Click to expand...

Did you get your core back? Maybe you can just install a new pulley.
 
I don't understand why they didn't have a 70/ later one in stock, it fits a lot more years, and if you ground one field terminal, you can use it on the 69/ earlier cars. This is what happens when you let pencil neck geeks run parts stores, LOL
 
how about it runs thru a ballast then gets regulated get the bigger regulater new balast
if not an msd put on another grond cleand metal connections you should be good to go
 
The two wires...blue and green, coming from the VR. Do they both go to the male spades on the alternator. Or does the blue one split off somwhere in the harness to somewhere else also?
 
The green only goes one place---from one field terminal to the regulator. This wire is the one the regulator controls "to ground" to control field current

Blue comes off the "ignition run" buss, which is the only switched 12V in the engine bay. Comes out of the bulkhead from the ignition switch, and depending on the year/ model, feeds

ignition system

regulator IGN terminal (blue)

alternator field (blue)

electric choke if used

on some cars (six pack) the idle solenoid

on some cars distributor retard solenoid (May be B, E bodies only)

and maybe one other smog doo dad on some cars.

Here's the simplified diagram:

In the diagram, the top field terminal is the blue coming from 12v "ignition run"

The bottom field terminal is the green wire going back to the regulator

Dual_Field_Alternator_Wiring.jpg
 
67Dart273 said:
The green only goes one place---from one field terminal to the regulator. This wire is the one the regulator controls "to ground" to control field current

Blue comes off the "ignition run" buss, which is the only switched 12V in the engine bay. Comes out of the bulkhead from the ignition switch, and depending on the year/ model, feeds

ignition system

regulator IGN terminal (blue)

alternator field (blue)

electric choke if used

on some cars (six pack) the idle solenoid

on some cars distributor retard solenoid (May be B, E bodies only)

and maybe one other smog doo dad on some cars.

Here's the simplified diagram:

In the diagram, the top field terminal is the blue coming from 12v "ignition run"

The bottom field terminal is the green wire going back to the regulator

Dual_Field_Alternator_Wiring.jpg
Click to expand...

Ok. I gotcha now! Thank you. I am hoping I didn't do any damage.
i will hook it back up the factory way, and hope all works well. days..The Alternator will be here in 8 days..If not, I will have some work ahead of me. Depending on what I fried. It starts right up and runs fine.
 
One more question. When I hook it back up with the right alternator. How will I know if I did any damage...Like what symptoms?
 
If you didn't smell any "burning plastic" nor see smoke, and everything --your stereo, lamps, etc, all work, should be OK.

When you get 'er on, report back, and let's check charging voltage, etc.
 
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