I spoke to Meziere last week (BB) and they said do not run a thermostat with their electric pump. My car was running hotter than I wanted. A new big radiator and dual derale shrouded fan set up!
Preferred Coolant Temps
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Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
The OP has the opposite issue. He can’t get enough heat. That’s going to require a thermostat or a bunch of monkey motion to get the heat up
73smallblock
Well-Known Member
Since our combo's are fairly similar, I just have a gutted t-stat as a restrictor. I have a big aluminum rad and 2 10" fans (I think they are 10") on a home made shroud and a csr water pump. In the summer I have no problem making 160 by the time I'm in the box. I usually just turn the fan and water pump on when I leave the pits headed to the lanes. In the fall I just cycle the fans on and off to keep the temps up. I run less timing then you so I would think you would make even more heat.
I’d like to see at least 150-160 which takes forever. I’d rather not burn through my fuel just to get it up to temp. I’m just trying to be able to warm up a little quicker…. Not get it hot.
Interesting. Someone else saw on their website that you can drill a few 1/8” holes in a thermostat and run it.
Think I’ll call them in the morning see what they tell me about that.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
I agree with that. 160 is probably good for gas and probably too cold for alcohol based fuels.
And you are 100% correct in that it takes an amazing amount of fuel to get the engine temp up with almost no load and no thermostat.
IMO your rings and cylinder walls wI’ll thank you with a quicker warm up.
I don’t see a need to complicate my system with that setup. Calling Meziere in the morning to confirm I can use a drilled thermostat or restricter and sending it.
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
My GTS has a 160 deg Mr. Gasket high flow thermostat. EMP also sells the Robert Shaw version which could be the same idk. Both (last time I ordered stock) have high flow bypass valves. I used an aluminum 22" e body radiator (KkS brand) off of ebay with two 10" fans switched off of a coolant temp sensor (Summit brand) that grounds out the fan relay at 185 and opens the circuit at 165 deg F.
Typically I roll into the burn out with the oil temp up at about 140-150 and stage around 160ish. It has never gone over 190 on the return road (single pass). Last t'nt I made four hot lap runs and never saw over 195 on the return road.
If it was me I would drill/tap the w/p housing and install a bypass. I'd think -8 would be more than enough. You could bend the line out of aluminum if you choose.
I don't like the idea of water not circulating and also would avoid deadheading the pump.
Popping the w/p manifold off and milling out a hole + tapping sounds like a relatively simple solution. The most painful aspect of the job is prcing out AN fittings. Aeroquip push-lok fitting are compact in comparison to the conventional style unless you are talking XRP or one of the upper echelon brands.
Dumb q:
Did we verify the temp with an infrared temp gun or other means of independent comparison? What was the ambient temp?
While I do think water temp is important I'd be more concerned about oil temperature in a drag car. In my experience takes quite a while for the oil to reach operating temperature after the coolant has done so. You can usually tell once the pressure stabilizes. As an example my 511" has 40psi idle at cold startup and 20ish at 1000 rpm or so when fully warm. Aluminum main caps and studs on this one, for reference.
Typically I roll into the burn out with the oil temp up at about 140-150 and stage around 160ish. It has never gone over 190 on the return road (single pass). Last t'nt I made four hot lap runs and never saw over 195 on the return road.
If it was me I would drill/tap the w/p housing and install a bypass. I'd think -8 would be more than enough. You could bend the line out of aluminum if you choose.
I don't like the idea of water not circulating and also would avoid deadheading the pump.
Popping the w/p manifold off and milling out a hole + tapping sounds like a relatively simple solution. The most painful aspect of the job is prcing out AN fittings. Aeroquip push-lok fitting are compact in comparison to the conventional style unless you are talking XRP or one of the upper echelon brands.
Dumb q:
Did we verify the temp with an infrared temp gun or other means of independent comparison? What was the ambient temp?
While I do think water temp is important I'd be more concerned about oil temperature in a drag car. In my experience takes quite a while for the oil to reach operating temperature after the coolant has done so. You can usually tell once the pressure stabilizes. As an example my 511" has 40psi idle at cold startup and 20ish at 1000 rpm or so when fully warm. Aluminum main caps and studs on this one, for reference.
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JD,
I thought about drilling and tapping the w/p housing for a bypass but decided to find an easier way around it. I'll call Meziere in the morning and get some insight direct from them.
We were checking temps everywhere with an inferred temp gun while on the dyno and were within a few degrees. Ambient temps were low while on the dyno but I had the same problem when I first got it running and ambient temps were in the 70's. Probably wouldn't be an issue at Woodburn in the dead of the summer though.... lol
I just ordered an oil temp gauge as well as I knew I should have one for this build.
Bill
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
Excellent!
I figured you were on top of getting an accurate measurement. That is one hell of a waterpump!
I'm very interested to hear input from the manufacturer.
Did you get any egt data or check the primary tubes with the infrared (out of curiosity)?
I figured you were on top of getting an accurate measurement. That is one hell of a waterpump!
I'm very interested to hear input from the manufacturer.
Did you get any egt data or check the primary tubes with the infrared (out of curiosity)?
I gotta find my notes! lol
moparstud440
Well-Known Member
For my cars that I've raced thru the years both BB and SB setups on either pump gas or race gas/pump gas mixture this is my procedure. I warm the car up 45 mins or so before time runs by driving around the pits and get engine temp up to 190. For a run I try and pull out of the staging lanes into the water box around 150, and typically I'm at 160 or so when I stage. Depending on the time of year I run the fans some in the lanes to cool down the temps or start the car a few pairs early to get some extra heat. All of my cars have factory water pumps with the Moroso electric water pump kits, I do run a thermostat, but it's gutted.
Last line in the tech specs sheet from Meziere....
"This model does not accept heater or bypass hoses as a standard. These may be added at the factory for an additional cost. Please call for details.
Calling them now.
"This model does not accept heater or bypass hoses as a standard. These may be added at the factory for an additional cost. Please call for details.
Calling them now.
Just got off the phone with Jerry at Meziere. According to him, running a thermostat with their pump will not hurt the pump however he did recommend drilling (2) 1/8" holes in the flange of the t-stat (as suggested). He chuckled when I told him about my situation and said "that's a good problem to have".... lol. He also said they can install provisions for bypass on their pumps and that service is available upon request.
I've decided to start with a 160 t-stat with 2 holes drilled and see how it works out.
Thanks all for the responses.
Bill
I've decided to start with a 160 t-stat with 2 holes drilled and see how it works out.
Thanks all for the responses.
Bill
ValiantS
Well-Known Member
You'd want the oil over 220-260f and the coolant about 33f but neither are realistic. So, if your chasing a tune-up keep oil temp consistent and near 200 and settle for the coolant temp at a reasonably achievable LOW value.
ValiantS
Well-Known Member
That's to allow air to escape when filling the system, I also recommend vacuum filling for the same reason.
They told me to keep the water pump running for 20 minutes to prevent any air pockets and the pump pushes either 35/46 or 55 GPM to push the coolant through the radiator as much as possible so no restrictions.
ValiantS
Well-Known Member
Do all that and anything you can think of to keep the system void of air. I'd do a rian dance if I thought it would help.
I run mine at 140 at the starting line. Race gas 112. Mine doesn’t like being hott. Nor does multiple other cars I race regularly with. We dynod a 572 earlier this year and did a pull with the water temp higher, it lost power all the way around.
If it struggles to get up to your target temp, why not run it cooler and see what it does. It may like it. Just a thought.
Lowering my target would help but not much. The problem is my cooling system is TOO efficient and if I have both the pump and fan on, it will never get warm. I prefer to not run it without at least the pump on and that's when it takes forever to warm up.... even to 140.
I am going to try a drilled 160 t-stat per Meziere's recommendation and see what it does.
Newbomb Turk
Well-Known Member
Oil temperature is based on clearance and grade. You run a 0w20 oil at 260 and it will kill the bearings.
Cool temps and thin oil makes more power in gas. Alcohol based fuels are different
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