Race blocks

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Doosterfy

Doosterfy

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Now that I've jumped into the pool and learned a little about the world of Mopar performance, I'm in the very early planning stages of the next motor for my Duster. I am sticking by my chiselled in stone rules and two of the biggest ones is the car keeps a flat hood an air cleaner and no power adders. I want to go way up on power as in 700 plus so it is a tall order to fill. I have two more 440 blocks, and one 400 block. I'm really thinking the low deck B motor makes sense because I can go with a bigger intake than the Torker II I am running now. I also know about the limitations of the factory blocks so I am thinking on spending the money on a race block before I buy any other parts. I have been poking around the web and have yet to see any low deck race blocks. My first choice would be a 4.5 siamese bore iron block but I would also settle for a 4.375 bore if that's all that is available. Does anyone have info on this?
 
Indy has a 4.5" bore low deck available here http://www.indyheads.com/blocks.html I'ts aluminum, uses siamese dry sleeves, and weighs 133 pounds. They also have a 4.25" stroke rotating assembly for it. Instead of 340, your rear call outs could say 540. Just think of the non believers you could ambush with the truth...
 
low deck will handle that much with a girdle. the intake can gain clearance by dropping K frame 1/2 with spacers. problem is more with keeping 727 together at 7-8 hundred hp level. There are 4 different 400 block casting numbers. Large numbered 230 block cast in early 71 (the best). small 230 block cast in later 71 which is not as good but still good. 530 and 630 I believe are the later two. The low deck 400 will do anything a 440 can do and do it better. This is due to shorter cylinder walls and less flex. Better fit in A body etc.

[ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Big-Block-Mopar-Engine-Performance-383-413-426-440-/311108269786?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item486f7f76da"]Big Block Mopar Engine Performance 383 413 426 440 | eBay[/ame]

this book is wealth of knowledge on 400 strokers. I would not buy a briggs and stratton from Indy or anything else for that matter. Their track record has been proven over and over. They do not and will not stand behind anything they build or sell.
 
if you got the money get a gen2 hemi. it can do 7 ,8 ,900 hp on pump gas. gonna cost you 18k-20k though, pan to carb(s)
http://raybarton.com/parts/index.php/engines/street-series-hemi.html

but to be honest, when you pay 5k for an aftermarket B or RB block, then your stroker kit 2k+, then all the parts and machining, etc etc you will probably be at 12k+ by the time you are done.
 
acpat said:
low deck will handle that much with a girdle. the intake can gain clearance by dropping K frame 1/2 with spacers. problem is more with keeping 727 together at 7-8 hundred hp level. There are 4 different 400 block casting numbers. Large numbered 230 block cast in early 71 (the best). small 230 block cast in later 71 which is not as good but still good. 530 and 630 I believe are the later two. The low deck 400 will do anything a 440 can do and do it better. This is due to shorter cylinder walls and less flex. Better fit in A body etc.

Big Block Mopar Engine Performance 383 413 426 440 | eBay

this book is wealth of knowledge on 400 strokers. I would not buy a briggs and stratton from Indy or anything else for that matter. Their track record has been proven over and over. They do not and will not stand behind anything they build or sell.
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The casting number on my 400 block is 3614230. I assume it's a late 71 block. I pulled it out of a B body 4 or 5 years ago. I think it was an early 70s Newport. There is a lot of debate about weather or not a factory block with a girdle rely can handle big power. The question is for how long or how many runs can it handle it. As far as dealing with INDY, I hear ya' I've talked to them on the phone and yes they are absolute jerks. What I've heard is if you want INDY parts, DON'T buy from INDY, buy from an INDY dealer. The dealers sort through the garbage and send the bad parts back. Little guys who buy parts get screwed when they have a problem with INDY parts.
 
It's a shame that there are so many know it all types on here. If it was not for Indy designing and developing blocks, heads, intakes, etc. the mopar racing scene would be almost non existent. I have PERSONAL experience with them and have an engine from them and I have no complaints and I thought that Russ and Ken were very polite and answered all my questions and are both very knowledgable. To each thier own but some are quick to bash others and it gets old listening to it nonstop. There are dozens and dozens of capable shops in this country that can design and build a performance mopar and every single one of them utilizes some form of an Indy product in thier builds. Also maybe it would be more fair to hear problems with Indy that are less than 10 years old and also have happened to you personally and not a friend of a friend of a racer halfway across the country......just saying.
 
bOb shingler said:
question here: why do you want to build a big cubic inch motor then choke it with a short intake and no hoodscoop that won't support the motor?
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I'm aiming for around 500 inches. I'm not sure if you consider that big inches but to me that's moderate. With this car I have set a strict rule of constraints to stay inside of and want to run low to mid tens while staying inside that box. I'd much rather have a car that looks like it will probly run 12s that runs 10s than a car that looks like it will run 10s and runs 12s. I'll be getting air into the engine with ducting instead of a hood scoop. I want an intake that is short enough to fit under the hood but that does not mean it has to be restrictive. The INDY mod man may fit the bill and it gives me lots of options including going with EFI. Now I have a question for you bOb. I've seen pictures of your car with the monster blown injected motor. What's the best ET and mph you've got with that setup?
 
bOb shingler said:
question here: why do you want to build a big cubic inch motor then choke it with a short intake and no hoodscoop that won't support the motor?
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x2. No power added, restricted intake choices (and really restrictive air cleaner...)
Here's my take... If you want a flat hood and you're using factory suspension and a motor plate you can make a little past 500hp, maybe a little more as it's run in that car. That's because whatever it makes on the dyno will be reduced when you stick an air filter housing and hood on the car. That doesn't make a difference with cubes, fuel, weather, anything else. You can only go so far down in the chassis with a K frame. Stick with a factory B wedge, stick a 5.75 crank in it with a decent set of heads, and work on fine tuning everything else on the car to maximize what it makes in it.
Otherwise - build a race car.
 
'68cuda416 said:
It's a shame that there are so many know it all types on here. If it was not for Indy designing and developing blocks, heads, intakes, etc. the mopar racing scene would be almost non existent. I have PERSONAL experience with them and have an engine from them and I have no complaints and I thought that Russ and Ken were very polite and answered all my questions and are both very knowledgable. To each thier own but some are quick to bash others and it gets old listening to it nonstop. There are dozens and dozens of capable shops in this country that can design and build a performance mopar and every single one of them utilizes some form of an Indy product in thier builds. Also maybe it would be more fair to hear problems with Indy that are less than 10 years old and also have happened to you personally and not a friend of a friend of a racer halfway across the country......just saying.
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I'm glad you have had good service from INDY. When I was building my 440 I called Indy and talked with someone there about heads. The guy was a jerk and talked to me like I was an idiot.Indy has earned the bad reputation for a reason. I agree they have some good parts and have helped push Mopar power levels up, But too many people have had problems and more than one person has said when they contacted Indy about problems they do not stand behind the product. What I have heard and agree with is to not buy Indy products directly from Indy. Buy Indy products from an authorized Indy dealer because the dealer will QC the parts and send the junk back, then sell the good parts only. Any Indy dealers reading this please chime in with your 2 cents.
 
you must have talked to the same guy I did when I was getting a set of heads, he wasn't very pleasant , really knew how to piss you off. so iwent another route, but they do have a killer parts selection and stuff that makes a lot of hp , even lookin at there stuff for the next build just will go threw a dealer like imm, hughes, or mrl , they all know there stuff and make sure things are right :blob: just my 2 cents though
 
345man2 said:
you must have talked to the same guy I did when I was getting a set of heads, he wasn't very pleasant , really knew how to piss you off. so iwent another route, but they do have a killer parts selection and stuff that makes a lot of hp , even lookin at there stuff for the next build just will go threw a dealer like imm, hughes, or mrl , they all know there stuff and make sure things are right :blob: just my 2 cents though
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Yup, I wound up buying 440 Source CNC ported Stealth heads. From what I've experienced with these heads I'm very happy with them. The biggest drawback was all the clearancing I had to do on the pushrod holes they had to be worked a lot and I had to be super careful not to break into the intake ports while doing it. The next motor I'm taliming about in this thread will have either Edelbrock Victors or INDY heads on it. I'm glad there are guys telling me what I want to do can't be done. I disagree with them on that. The biggest challenge is the intake limitations because of the flat hood. I'm pretty sure I can get around that problem with possibly an INDY mod man intake maybe with a closed plate and EFI and a throttle body on the front or possibly some low profile throttle bodies on the top. Could even do an individula runner EFI setup if need be. Big power and flat hood are doable, might not be easy but I can do it.
 
Throttle bodies (EFI) are a good deal shorter than karbanator bodies.....just saying....
 
Doosterfy said:
I'm aiming for around 500 inches. I'm not sure if you consider that big inches but to me that's moderate. With this car I have set a strict rule of constraints to stay inside of and want to run low to mid tens while staying inside that box. I'd much rather have a car that looks like it will probly run 12s that runs 10s than a car that looks like it will run 10s and runs 12s. I'll be getting air into the engine with ducting instead of a hood scoop. I want an intake that is short enough to fit under the hood but that does not mean it has to be restrictive. The INDY mod man may fit the bill and it gives me lots of options including going with EFI. Now I have a question for you bOb. I've seen pictures of your car with the monster blown injected motor. What's the best ET and mph you've got with that setup?
Click to expand...

well you've heard the saying " if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have have luck at all". on july 11th this year the hotrod burnt up. will have a winter project to do.
 
bOb shingler said:
well you've heard the saying " if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have have luck at all". on july 11th this year the hotrod burnt up. will have a winter project to do.
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Oh, Mann, I'm very sorry to hear that. Do you mean burnt up as in the car caught fire while using it or your garage burned down with the car in it? I keep $15,000 insurance coverage on my car. Going way up on that number after I restore the body and interior.
 
GEO said:
You can always use K-frame spacers to lower the k-frame and get more clearance
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I will consider using them. I have to look at a car that has them first. If it is too noticable I won't use them. This whole deal is going to be difficult. I'm keeping the torsion bars and the big original power steering box and pump also. Going to fab my own multy piece big tube under chassis headers too. Planning on sending the tubes on cylinders 1 and 2 strait down through the K frame and run them under right where the lower control arms attach to the K frame. Also going to fab my own oil pan and do the center link through the pan trick. I have a bunch of guys in my area with power adder cars loaded with highly visible race equipment who trailer to the track and usually break while there. They need to get their asses handed to them by a docile looking car.
 
Doosterfy said:
I will consider using them. I have to look at a car that has them first. If it is too noticable I won't use them. This whole deal is going to be difficult. I'm keeping the torsion bars and the big original power steering box and pump also. Going to fab my own multy piece big tube under chassis headers too. Planning on sending the tubes on cylinders 1 and 2 strait down through the K frame and run them under right where the lower control arms attach to the K frame. Also going to fab my own oil pan and do the center link through the pan trick. I have a bunch of guys in my area with power adder cars loaded with highly visible race equipment who trailer to the track and usually break while there. They need to get their asses handed to them by a docile looking car.
Click to expand...

Hot rod magazine used them on a car in one of their Hot rod to the rescue articles , it was earlier this year
 
I see the aluminum low deck on Indy's web site. I don't know the price and don't want to load a PDF deal into my phone to see the price. I'm going to assume it's around 5-6 grand. That's too expensive for me. I'm leaning more towards the 400 block I have. Moper, you are very knowledgable on this subject. What actually goes wrong with these block when they're pushed hard? I see you don't believe in girdles. Does the block crack and grenade or start spinning bearings, or what?
 
Doosterfy said:
Oh, Mann, I'm very sorry to hear that. Do you mean burnt up as in the car caught fire while using it or your garage burned down with the car in it? I keep $15,000 insurance coverage on my car. Going way up on that number after I restore the body and interior.
Click to expand...

it was at the track. the blower belt broke and some how got up past the guard and snapped off the #16(1") fuel line to the pump and dumped 8 gallons of methanol on the hot motor. burnt the parachute, tail lights, interior carpet, engine compartment up, the plastic fenders, grill, magneto, all the wiring, oil lines, fuel injection lines and the ever popular other stuff.
 
I read, "Watch out! These blocks fail at a certain horsepower!"

When I go looking for these failures they are very rare and usually result from poor assembly procedures/components. There are far more success stories than those of engine block failures.
 
'68cuda416 said:
It's a shame that there are so many know it all types on here. If it was not for Indy designing and developing blocks, heads, intakes, etc. the mopar racing scene would be almost non existent. I have PERSONAL experience with them and have an engine from them and I have no complaints and I thought that Russ and Ken were very polite and answered all my questions and are both very knowledgable. To each thier own but some are quick to bash others and it gets old listening to it nonstop. There are dozens and dozens of capable shops in this country that can design and build a performance mopar and every single one of them utilizes some form of an Indy product in thier builds. Also maybe it would be more fair to hear problems with Indy that are less than 10 years old and also have happened to you personally and not a friend of a friend of a racer halfway across the country......just saying.
Click to expand...
My recent personal experience with Indy is what I base my advise to avoid them at all coats. That guy who you deal with on the phone - Josh, is a liar and will charge you for work they did not do. If you need to get their stuff get it through a dealer and let them deal with the Indy BS. As for the origonal poster - The B block is shorter. Maybe with Victor heads and a lower manifold you may clear the hood with a 4150 and reach your goal, but I don't know about with an air cleaner.

Edit: I went back up and saw Bob's tale of woe. Daymmm, hate to hear that. I am working on the mock up of a Vortech V7 on my KB/B1 motor. Will have to consider that threat.
 
IQ52 said:
I read, "Watch out! These blocks fail at a certain horsepower!"

When I go looking for these failures they are very rare and usually result from poor assembly procedures/components. There are far more success stories than those of engine block failures.
Click to expand...

Yup my 400 block is looking like a viable option. I think if I dropped the big bucks on the alum Indy block I'd be jeapordising the whole project. I'm not wealthy by any means and it typically takes me aong time to reach the end on my builds but I'm very good at seeing things through till completion and the setup I have now is 100% streetable and runs mid 11s so I can enjoy the car while I chip away at this new stone. Probly going to put a cage in tbe car soon also.
 
I never dealt with Josh and actually didnt see any sales people when I was down there in person to watch my engine dyno. I am happy with the results, the work, the finished product and the interaction I had with the owner, which would be Russ and also with Ken Lazerri who is his head engine builder and dyno'd my engine. Experiences differ and I am just posting mine.
 
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