rack n pinion front steer ackerman issues...explain...

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same holds true with strut cars, compare the inclination of the struts on your front wheel drive K car [etc.] which are rear steer , to say a fox body mustang which are front steer. You will notice that the fox body struts are angled in towards the center of the car and the K car struts are almost straight up. Newer designs dont use this as much due to the new design of large diameter high offset wheels which allow more room for front steer. Because the wheel hub is now farther out it makes it more easier to incorporate a front steer design [on the newer cars of today]
 
omahamoparguy said:
front steer systems using A arms are a bit harder to design from a practical perspective. This is because the steering arms themselves seem to have a need to occupy the same space as the brake rotors [drums also], or the wheels themselves. this is on a factory setup of course. .
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Exactly what I discovered in my backyard way. I read some threads on here, and ended up laying under my 98 Ranger, which is front rack. I concluded there is no way the steering arms can end up looking like the Ranger, on the 67 Dart
 
67Dart273 said:
Exactly what I discovered in my backyard way. I read some threads on here, and ended up laying under my 98 Ranger, which is front rack. I concluded there is no way the steering arms can end up looking like the Ranger, on the 67 Dart
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my car has custom spindle mounts and custom steering arms all billet and adjustable. the stock lower ball joint that held the spindle that people try to swap side to side for steering control. that has the goofy angle for rear steer. yea that is long gone. you can see those in my build thread resting in the floor of my trunk pic next to my fuel cell. those are history and anybody who thinks my chassis guy used those is a fool. he does not build winning race cars being dumb. if you want to his work first hand just turn on skinnystt vs boostedgt on street outlaws kansas city mo from this seasons first episode. that white notch is his handy chassis work. and according to big chief it will run 5.60s in a carwash or a rain storm.

[ame]https://youtu.be/Cy5lX6Fa2qo[/ame]
 
Spun Bearing said:
Now that's funny and I don't care who you are.

It won't work with stock unmodified spindles and steering arms just flipped side-to-side.

You cannot simulate the issues you're facing by just rolling it around on the shop floor with no engine in it.

I'd love to see the look on your face the first you put it in reverse and try to back up with the wheel turned sharp.
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weird i guess having an engine and trans in it must be difficult to read in text huh? cars been spun around 360° forward and back in my drive thats slightly inclined. rolled better than it did with the stock **** on it oth directions but hey. you know better than a guy that has won multiple classes in drag racing, stock car racing and street racing, dragweek, 10.5w, outlaw 10.5, x275, and the list goes on... i know who im trusting.
 
turbofreek said:
my car has custom spindle mounts and custom steering arms all billet and adjustable. the stock lower ball joint that held the spindle that people try to swap side to side for steering control. that has the goofy angle for rear steer. yea that is long gone. you can see those in my build thread resting in the floor of my trunk pic next to my fuel cell. those are history and anybody who thinks my chassis guy used those is a fool. he does not build winning race cars being dumb. if you want to his work first hand just turn on skinnystt vs boostedgt on street outlaws kansas city mo from this seasons first episode. that white notch is his handy chassis work. and according to big chief it will run 5.60s in a carwash or a rain storm.

https://youtu.be/Cy5lX6Fa2qo
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Most of what you are posting seems to be a dance. Let me know when you are done with this
 
Agree, it is important to know what you are doing when designing a front end geometry. I think if I were going to go "front steer" with my duster, I think I would try to incorporate the Mustang II spindles [that is if I wanted to keep a A arm suspension.] Not sure if that is practical with the torsion bars so I would probably end up using coilover's and a front tie in bars to stiffen the front frame rails and the upper a arm mounts. then you would be ready for all kinds of big hedders and such....haha, maybe twin turbos [uh-oh I'm gettin off topic/dreaming...]
 
Nascar and roundy round racers dont worry about Akerman because they do not make tight enough turns to warrant it. The steering arms are pretty much straight ahead and usually they do prefer front type steering set-ups [for high speed stability]. The Akerman is only there for the factory cars when you are pulling in and out of your driveway etc. you dont want your grocery-getter to squeel tires pulling into the McDonalds drive through would you. Of course not, that could also cause premature tire wear and you might spill your large orange drink....
 
my k member doesnt use mustang parts. or torsion bars or front tie in bars like the original torsion bar design lowers. it is a coilover setup. it is rodend chromoly adjustable. it is an A arm like lower design. it just is not cluttered with unneeded hardward that takes up real estate. it uses the factory wheel spindle only. non of the attaching brackets except brake components you will need. it comes with its own billet spindle mounting hardware to use for the lower control arm and rack. if i am being vague keep in mind. this is a new design for future market for a bodies. pics wont be available unless discussed and approved appropriate to show. i want you guys to know this is going to be out next fall or so. i just have to keep from being copied and stolen for now. ill be as forth coming as i can but some things i will be hushed on to a point.
there is no dancing around anything except keeping the design his till its on the market. once it tested and proven or if anything needs improved or changed before marketed. it will be done first before sold to the public. thats just the way he is. make sure its safe for everybody before one is sold to anyone else.
 
omahamoparguy said:
Nascar and roundy round racers dont worry about Akerman because they do not make tight enough turns to warrant it. The steering arms are pretty much straight ahead and usually they do prefer front type steering set-ups [for high speed stability]. The Akerman is only there for the factory cars when you are pulling in and out of your driveway etc. you dont want your grocery-getter to squeel tires pulling into the McDonalds drive through would you. Of course not, that could also cause premature tire wear and you might spill your large orange drink....
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he is NOT a roundy round racer. he only raced one year to prove a point to another he could do it and won.
 
So there fore, IMHO, if you are not making any tight turns at all, you could get by with LIMITED akerman. Example could be a drag car or a dirt track or late model racer as long as you are not making tight turns all the time. However, even in these instances, I would not spin the steering arms around and mount a rack and pinion in the front, this would cause the reverse of akerman as previously stated. Now if you could fab some new types of arms and mount them on your rear steer spindles then it could be feasible for types of racing that do not require tight turning but only in those instancces. On the street, its just not a good idea at all. JMHO .
 
omahamoparguy said:
So there fore, IMHO, if you are not making any tight turns at all, you could get by with LIMITED akerman. Example could be a drag car or a dirt track or late model racer as long as you are not making tight turns all the time. However, even in these instances, I would not spin the steering arms around and mount a rack and pinion in the front, this would cause the reverse of akerman as previously stated. Now if you could fab some new types of arms and mount them on your rear steer spindles then it could be feasible for types of racing that do not require tight turning but only in those instancces. On the street, its just not a good idea at all. JMHO .
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the spindles dont care where they are being turned from. they have a top and bottom pivot point location. its like a swinging door at the store. it opens either direction when you push on it from either side. both sides of the door being pushed still opens the door. so it makes no difference to the hinge if its from inside or outside the building does it????
same goes for a cars front tire. it does not care if you pull it left or push it left. it still goes left does it not? does the pushing or pulling of that change the pivot points of the upper and lower balljoint, of course not!!!
now true about the rear steer arm can not be flipped around. not because of the arm that sticks out. it is because the actual ball angle is wrong and puts everything in the wrong location which screws the ackerman way the **** off. this is where everyone was going with that at. it was given in great detail on page 1 of this thread. it was wonderfully helpful for me but my chassis guy had found that before i even got home from dropping the car off to him. lol
so what your saying about the rest is invalid and well...frankly of billy madison ideology.
 
turbofreek said:
well i learned a lot about mopar front suspension these last few months as did my chassis guy taught me a bunch about it. we seen all you guys talked about and he fixed all the issues without raising costs of a k member for the a bodies that is gonna be available once i get to test it out for any issues etc... cant wait to display it once im done testing out. feather weight and roomy is an understatement. i could run zoomies with it. it will allow corner carving im betting, still keeps the stock spindles, i can run a full sump oil pan and remove the pan in car. so many positives. cant even see any negatives. fully adjustable lower control arms. coil overs, i can run flipped manifolds no issues. the real estate is unbelievable for sure. big tube headers will be able to be tucked up away from the ground finally. no more dragging them on low clearance areas. the cars will be able to sit lower and still have tons of ground clearance. everything the mopar world has been missing and long waiting for in my opinion. say good by the the 4x4 a body mopar community once and for all. pic under my car can be seen in my build thread. you wont see the k member but maybe a tiny tiny idea of what is happening up under the front.

the suspense is gonna kill for sure but when it gets presented. it will be well worth the wait. thank you guys very much for all the q and a of this board.
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:happy1: sounds like the best thing since sliced bread!
 
Not to be mean - just direct. But talk is cheap. Whip out the Bona Fides. Or if something a little more obscure is your thing. Your papers of authenticity of ancestry or are you from Gelderland. Trust but verify (Ronald Reagan) - is fading fast into history. Just like your string along will without substance.
 
Suprised no comments on the pics in the links provided. A few have steering arms that look like 1/4 flat stock. What materials are used in this thing? Are we talking cro- mo , 1020 dom, wall thickness? Or we talking pipe from Lowes?
 
Blind Squirrel said:
Not to be mean - just direct. But talk is cheap. Whip out the Bona Fides. Or if something a little more obscure is your thing. Your papers of authenticity of ancestry or are you from Gelderland. Trust but verify (Ronald Reagan) - is fading fast into history. Just like your string along will without substance.
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I have seen this before on moparts. A guy promoting his front end "look at me" and "wait for my unveiling" wouldnt answer any tech questions . It's the same bs. Some of this poorly engineered stuff shouldn't be on the street.
 
Kind of like this poor bas - turd.

Turn your sound down first.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=099douUPsOE"]What do we need? ... MORE POWER! - YouTube[/ame]
 
GeorgeH said:
Suprised no comments on the pics in the links provided. A few have steering arms that look like 1/4 flat stock. What materials are used in this thing? Are we talking cro- mo , 1020 dom, wall thickness? Or we talking pipe from Lowes?
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chromoly tubing and forged billet steel. all tig welded. . so what you are talking about flat stock cuz you have me baffled **** and its my car. this chassis builder has been around a long time. he has k member kits all for mustangs, f bodies, only one who makes a mark viii k member kit.

anyways. like ive said. there is testing that needs to be done. things will need changed or revamped/tweaked like any new product as it gets tested. one of just another reason i dont post more pics. he said i could post a little bit of it but i dont really want to. i think with as much **** is already being slung there is no point. the end result will leave the cards play out as they should.
 
HemiDenny said:
Great video......my money says the car has.....or had a 4-bar with the brackets welded to the thin u shaped factory framerails.....and some HP.
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man what ever it had it wasnt welded to anything structurally sound or had inferior parts fastened together. chinese grade ate(8).lol
 
I saw where Big Chief crashed.....I was told there were some questionable welds on the seat brackets.

You know those guys?
 
HemiDenny said:
I saw where Big Chief crashed.....I was told there were some questionable welds on the seat brackets.

You know those guys?
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so you dont actually "know" what happened than with the crows seat do you? well im not gonna spoon feed you the facts. you wish to continue along this path by all means.....
 
How would I know? I'm out here in Bumfuck...

I just thought you knew the guys and I was making conversation
 
HemiDenny said:
How would I know? I'm out here in Bumfuck...

I just thought you knew the guys and I was making conversation
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ohio is not bfe denny, but pretty damn close. lol his seat broke not any welds. the back brace to support the upper part of his carbon fiber seat punched through the seat. i am uncertain if that is what happen to daves nova but i believe it to be so. but by saying both is the same is total speculation at this point. i only know justins for sure did via my eye balls seen the pic of it like everyone else who has internet. i know the fix to there issues as does many others. it isnt the seats fault. its just proper bracing support for materials used. expect the unexpected didnt get looked into at the back of the seat brace and it caused injury. lucky it didnt cause death. i know i would not of approved of the mounts before taking the car home like that. yet i am a safety nazi unlike anything one has seen.
 
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