RAMM wanted to know about this 451..............

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IQ52

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You would think these La Roy clowns could do better than 3rd place.

Here is a Mopar Muscle Magazine article from 2009 on the 451 that J.Rob was asking me about.
Some pictures are available on the website also.

There was a lot of laughing when we said we were going to make 700+ horsepower when our turn came on the dyno.....................

2009 Amsoil/Mopar Muscle Engine Challenge LaRoy Engines & ProMax Performance - Mopar Muscle Magazine

We went home and picked up a bit more horsepower with another cam and some more tuning.
 
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That was a nice combo. I was never able to make 700 hp with the Edelbrock heads since I don't know how to port heads. The Trick Flow heads have leveled the playing field for guys like me. Now I can build 700 hp engines without having to doing any port work.
 
AndyF said:
That was a nice combo. I was never able to make 700 hp with the Edelbrock heads since I don't know how to port heads. The Trick Flow heads have leveled the playing field for guys like me. Now I can build 700 hp engines without having to doing any port work.
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Hi Andy! I'm with ya, starting from scratch, I would go with the Trick Flow heads long before doing another set of the RPM heads.
 
La Roy, that would us.

ahhh.....that would be us.
 
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Wow! Head porters/engine builders AND elk packer outers all in one package! Lucky man!
 
With the ported edelbrock heads,do you recall how much was taken out of them and what the final intake runner volume would have been roughly?
 
evil66 said:
With the ported edelbrock heads,do you recall how much was taken out of them and what the final intake runner volume would have been roughly?
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We scooped a little out here and a little bit out there. I have to measure some port volumes in the EQ heads next week, when I do, I'll remeasure the RPM heads.
 
mbaird said:
Wow! Head porters/engine builders AND elk packer outers all in one package! Lucky man!
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Oh, the head porter is also a custom grille guard maker with the winch behind the bumper...............

Brag 001.jpg


And Bighorn Sheep skull maker...............
Brag 002.jpg
 
IQ52 said:
We scooped a little out here and a little bit out there. I have to measure some port volumes in the EQ heads next week, when I do, I'll remeasure the RPM heads.
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Thanks, just curious as a friend has installed some of the 325cc runner procomp heads on a 458ci/440. They flow only a few cfm more than what your Edelbrocks did, but i am assuming yours are a fair amount smaller cc wise and more efficient.
 
evil66 said:
Thanks, just curious as a friend has installed some of the 325cc runner procomp heads on a 458ci/440. They flow only a few cfm more than what your Edelbrocks did, but i am assuming yours are a fair amount smaller cc wise and more efficient.
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I'm sure the RPMs are 250cc or smaller.
 
There was a Lime Green 6 pac Superbird in Salmon. I was curious if you ever remember seeing it. Assuming it came to Challis or you got to Salmon from time to time.... It was spotted from the air in a field around 2000. I knew the old Chrysler rep from 1970 and he told me he forced that dealer to take it....
 
The 451 was conceived in this fashion.

In 1982, Pop built a 440. His ported Stage IV iron heads, 800 cfm Holley, Holley Street Dominator, Clay Smith Roller cam R-310-8-SB, 12.5:1 compression, and he made 593 lb-ft @ 4,500 and 630 hp @ 7,000 rpm.

So in 2005 Cody said, "Hey, can't we do something like this?"

A year later the 451 was born.

So in 2006, the same short block we used in 2009, minus the ARP main studs, but using a stock factory windage tray, with a plenum welded Mopar Performance M1 single plane changing it into a 4150 style carburetor plate, our ported 452 factory iron heads, 950 cfm Quick Fuel, Comp Cams XR292R solid roller and 9.5:1 compression, made 588 lb-ft @ 4,600 rpm and 621 hp @ 6,100 rpm.
 
mbaird said:
There was a Lime Green 6 pac Superbird in Salmon. I was curious if you ever remember seeing it. Assuming it came to Challis or you got to Salmon from time to time.... It was spotted from the air in a field around 2000. I knew the old Chrysler rep from 1970 and he told me he forced that dealer to take it....
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That rumor pops up every now and then. I heard about it in the 1990's. I know some MOPAR guys there who can't locate it and have looked for a long time. Rumor about a similar car in Clayton, ID years ago too.

I think it is like the the blue 1969 Factory Hemi Fury I was told existed in Wyoming. Guy at work said it was supposed to be behind a white barn near a railroad iron trestle bridge over a river. The engine had spark plug wires through the valve covers and was supposed to be missing the intake and timing cover. I looked for months and one night at work at about 12 mid-night I figured out where this person was talking about. Left work and headed for it in Montana. Walked across the trestle bridge and found a blue 1969 Fury behind the white barn. Was missing the intake and timing cover...........but it was a 383. Some of the guys at work abused a lot of drugs in times passed.
 
The car did actually exist in this case. I know a Boise attorney (Ed Miller) that grew up in Salmon and mentioned that he had a Road Runner back then. I asked if he knew of the car and he said he remembered it and told me the guys name that owned it. I was up there a few years ago and tried to look him up but no one was around. Owns a construction or dirt business.
It was spotted by an ariel sprayer in the late 90s sitting off in the weeds... Guy didnt know what it was other than "one of those old Plymouths with a big wing in bright green. " he had just finished spraying Jerry Blakes property north of Anaconda MT and noticed Jerrys Mopars. Jerry was the head of Chrysler Parts division until he retired in mid nineties and was the local rep in 67-73.
 
IQ52 said:
You would think these La Roy clowns could do better than 3rd place.

Here is a Mopar Muscle Magazine article from 2009 on the 451 that J.Rob was asking me about.
Some pictures are available on the website also.

There was a lot of laughing when we said we were going to make 700+ horsepower when our turn came on the dyno.....................

2009 Amsoil/Mopar Muscle Engine Challenge LaRoy Engines & ProMax Performance - Mopar Muscle Magazine

We went home and picked up a bit more horsepower with another cam and some more tuning.
Click to expand...

I appreciate it Jim, and that was one heckuva build. J.Rob
 
I wish the Mopar Muscle Magazine video of the first pull on Comp Cams dyno was still available.

The previous 451 strokers in the contest had both made around 585 hp. That evening at dinner there was much laughter that we thought we were going to make over 700 hp, and everybody knew it was impossible with Edelbrock RPM heads.

So next day when they set up the screen on the dyno computer to show the horsepower graph, they had it maxed out at 600 hp for our first pull. When the horsepower graph showed up on the screen, the dyno operator turned and said to the crowd standing behind him, "IT WENT OFF MY CHART!"

The then editor of Mopar Muscle Magazine, Randy Bolig said, "Well..........that's what we wanted to find out."

They expanded the chart and it read, 701 hp.
 
But to be fair, by the time you were done with those heads they just said Edelbrock on the ends. They were basically a Max Wedge port size correct which is why you used the Indy intake? So there was a lot of work done to those heads. Around that same time frame Dulcich showed up with a set of prototype Chapman Stage VI heads and blew everyone away. Those were a high port head and they really cooked but of course they didn't last long on the market since the cost was so high and Chapman went under during the big recession. If there was a standard port rule engine contest today I think the Trick Flow 240 head castings could be reworked into a high port version with some grinding and filling. I think they would work as well as the old Chapman heads but it would take some porting skills to make it happen. Not my cup of tea but I bet someone does it at some point.
 
AndyF said:
But to be fair, by the time you were done with those heads they just said Edelbrock on the ends. They were basically a Max Wedge port size correct which is why you used the Indy intake? So there was a lot of work done to those heads. Around that same time frame Dulcich showed up with a set of prototype Chapman Stage VI heads and blew everyone away. Those were a high port head and they really cooked but of course they didn't last long on the market since the cost was so high and Chapman went under during the big recession. If there was a standard port rule engine contest today I think the Trick Flow 240 head castings could be reworked into a high port version with some grinding and filling. I think they would work as well as the old Chapman heads but it would take some porting skills to make it happen. Not my cup of tea but I bet someone does it at some point.
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Fair? Now that is funny. I shall explain why.

But first, perhaps we should go back and explore why we even entered the 2009 contest?

In the 2008 Mopar Muscle Magazine Dyno Contest we were not included in the field. I didn't send in an entry because, well, I don't think I knew about the contest. Then I picked up a magazine and noticed an interesting fact. The spec cylinder head in 2008 was the Indy 440 SR.

Guess who was invited......Indy Cylinder Head! They were letting the people who made the cylinder head enter the contest! Do you think Indy was going to chance getting beat? No way comrade Andy! They even moved the valve locations in the heads and moved the bores to get big valves to fit. How much time they spent on the flow bench and dyno prior to the contest I'm afraid to guess.

Care to guess who won in 2008? Yeah, Indy!

The 2009 spec cylinder head was the Edelbrock RPM.

Why did we enter in 2009? These years later the truth comes out. One reason. We wanted Indy! After letting them enter their own head and compete, we hoped they would run an Edelbrock head the next year, and we were gunning for Indy. Then.....they were not in the field.......damn.

I can now think of multiple reasons why it would not have been wise for Indy to enter in 2009, but at the time they just didn't occur to me.

Fair in 2009? You are correct, it wasn't. With our cylinder head abilities, and after planning at the beginning for Indy, letting us enter in 2009 was just as unfair as letting Indy compete in 2008 with their own head. Not fair, not fair at all.
 
Creativity let a little Idaho back country shop put some big shops/manufactures to shame.
Thats impressive!
 
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