Rant- don't read please!!!

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barbee6043

barbee6043

barbee 6043
FABO Gold Member
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Location
Shepherd, Texas ( SE Tx)
I talked to Mopar bud today I've known since '85. He has made a living in mopar engine building, race car building, body/paint, swapping parts-he does it all- all his life and still does. He is back in Missouri. I asked about a particular Mopar model I am thinking of getting, maybe. 66 Bel. Maybe.
I asked his opinion of the market. Basically he said lots of guys that have been in the hobby, like us, quite a while (years) are not doing any cars now, they are afraid of being upside down. Hard to find good projects, overpriced, hard to find good parts, everything is expensive, new interior, machine work, all parts, paint, etc. ..stupid high.
I agreed. I do my car as a hobby but I have NeVeR lost $ on a project or any Mopar. I find it hard to spend $ on them, and be able to sell and just my $ out of them though. I know, it is a hobby, but I buy right and do all my own work, I should not lose a dime. I might buy a project right and sell it for a small profit after I clean it up and get it running, maybe, but it gets harder all the time. Hard to totally restore most cars and get it all back. Fewer good project cars and fewer people buying. The new "musclecar" market gets most of it I figure.
Ii sold a 71 Duster slant, 3 on floor car. I replaced all the rusted metal, and smoothed out all of dings, scratches, new brakes, muffler and pipes, tires, radiator ,.STILL needed paint. Running driving pretty decent car. PO had recovered the front seat. It took 5 months to get $3500 . It was on FABO all that time and 1 inquiry. I put it on CL and Marketplace, in a month, I had 2 lookers, I offer, and other looker paid the $3500 and was happy to got it. I all that pitiful. OK so this is SE TEXAS> It ain't west Tx with total population of 100 men women and children!
I had $3500 in it, and bought it complete for $1500. I did all the work. That is buying a a decent project for $1500.OK it cot sm e a $100 for a bonded title also. Hard to find any complete 70-72 Duster that is not a POS for less.
I guess this is just on my mind as I look for another project I would like to do. WHY!? Retired, old, woreout, but like to stay active, I love the cars, maybe it is getting really hard to work on them, but it helps me stay alive, maybe!!?
Like to have another B Body. Chargers (2 and 3 rd gen) are too expensive. So are 68-70. OK a 66-7 Bel. or Coronet, just a roller or 318 car. Something worth working on. $2500-3500 and NO they ain't taking less. Then the guys that are into those models swear a decent driver can't be had for less than $15000. Yea right I will no tput tht is any toy!!! Even if I won the lottery. ha
Then I always wanted to build a 50 something anything. So I find a typical rusted 50 Chevy 4 door for yes $200 (instead of the usual $1000-1500), and a 9 hr road trip to La.
Do I really want to start that!!????????? ha

Maybe I will just buy that 66 Bel 4 door roller 1 hr down the road for the $400!???? ha

Thanks I feel better now!!!!!
 
You could always go a different route and build a ratrod. Anything goes and you can get most the parts cheap. Just something to do car oriented.
Heck put a Chevy in it and everyone will want it. Lol
Sorry but I read it.
 
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RAT ROD AL said:
You could always go a different route and build a ratrod. Anything goes and you can get most the parts cheap. Just something to do car oriented.
Heck put a Chevy in it and everyone will want it. Lol
Sorry but I read it.
Click to expand...

I work with a guy getting deep into model A's and flatheads. You hit the nail on the head. When he has to replace or upgrade, it's to not be as picky about it as his SS Chevelle. A different world for sure.

JW
 
Sorry, I read it.
Sometimes just writing things down, getting things off your chest, and getting input from others gives you different perspective.
And that's a good thing. :)
 
I read it too. I repair cars for a living. Never have time for my (3) projects. Buddy started his last weekend, was hoping he would be more independent so i could putter with my stuff.
Regardless, if you place no value on your time and guestimate what you spend on parts you are doing it for the enjoyment or to challenge yourself.
There is no profit. A losing savings account.

Even buying current fixer-uppers and selling, i cant get 1/2 my shop rate for labour.
Parts cost money, lights,and all the little things on the shelf add up quick.
Its for the love of the machine...
 
Go for the $400 Belvedere. Nothing wrong with a four door car, whether or not it’s a hot rod is completely up to you. But I myself have always wanted one for a sleeper. And, if you elect to gut it and make a lightweight out of it, someone out there will want most of the stuff you take out of it.
 
ah shot,I read it too! I agree. I had purchased a 69 Dart shell twice for the same amount both times and sold for the same amount both times. It needed some parts so I contacted my local 69 dart collector friend and asked what he might be willing to sell. Long story short; well the "going" price on these parts are now...and that's the second time I sold the car. Sooo,instead of replacing it with a full-blooded Mopar, I bought it's cousin,a 73 Hornet Sportabout. Drove 2 hours to bring home a Roswell,New Mexico car. 'Course that was 8 years or so ago and progress is slim. Maybe a lateral shift in thinking is in order. (I'd like to have another 68 Plymouth 4-door to play with, but $$$)
 
I confess - in my past (recent and otherwise) I have been guilty of not following instructions. Bad on me, I read your post.

Now that I have ratted myself out, I can only agree completely with you. I've only been in this hobby (2nd time around) for 3 years, but I see a strong surge in stupid pricing. Any rusted, worn out, POS is gold plated and priced accordingly. I force myself to wait for the right parts and cars, at the right price. It takes patience and perseverance, but I'm getting there. I feel your pain, and I hope you can find a good solution in your marketplace.
 
I know a lot of people don't agree with me. Capitalism and all. But I think we only have ourselves to blame for how expensive everything has gotten. People treat the hobby as a business and it's driven the prices of everything up astronomically. If flippers and greed weren't an issue, we would be able to buy and sell parts to each other for cheap and only pull out the wallet for the new repopped stuff you buy from businesses.

Instead everyone has turned their own selling of parts into a business, which in turn just makes all of us have to spend more to get less in the end. I'm all for making money but I'd rather use my job to make money and my hobby to have fun.

These days the only way to realistically break even or make money on a project is if you can do all the paint and body work yourself.
 
I guess I’m in another camp than most people. In the swap circles I’m known as the “cheap parts guy”. I just want to sell the excess parts to fund my interest in the hobby. I happen into cars and only pay what I think they’re worth, or I walk away. I’m now doing a “preservation” on my latest car. I don’t care if it has some rust, I’m only fixing the mechanicals and driving it like it is. I trade and barter with other hobbiests to get things done on my cars. My time spent on hobby cars is free, I get paid at my real job and keep all my finances separate. If I can’t afford to buy something for the hobby, I wait. I don’t use credit cards, I just save up the money from selling parts. If it takes 10 years, that’s what it takes me. I have way bigger priorities in my life than hobby cars, but love to work on them any chance I get. They’ll get there in time, which is fine with me.
 
Texas is a year round climate.
It's a hobby.
Some make money.
Some don't.
If you play this one correctly, at least you have transportation as a result of it.
Do you expect to make money when you buy a new car?

Signed,
Your Therapist.
No charge for this visit.

 
Looks like I will bite on the 66Bel more door, and the $200 50 Chevy more door. One is 1 hr away, the other a days ride there and back. I figure the wife will be happy as the duster just brought in $3500 and I am only spending $700!????? I will soon find out her blood pressure!! ha
Been negotiating on a running slant 66 Bel project that need everything but he is stuck on $2700, would take 2 four speeds on trade but he wants me to guarantee them perfect!! It s a $1500 prjct car to me. Oh well. I will go another route.
That Ne. deal would be a good car to negotiate on, but I really don't want to spemd 3 days on the road!!! At 71 driving 1600 mi gets hard on my ***, and expensive too! My Cummins gets 13mpg pullng a trailer with a 4:10 !!!!!
 
Not sure if you're looking for people's perspective or not, but you did post it on a public forum, so here's my take.

I think this is your biggest problem:
barbee6043 said:
I do my car as a hobby but I have NeVeR lost $ on a project or any Mopar.
Click to expand...

If you're being 100% honest, then you are severely limiting yourself by keeping that mindset. It's a hobby and an expensive one. Just getting a car back into running shape and back on the road - and I'm not even talking about a restoration - takes quite a bit of cash. In my opinion it's okay to spend money doing something you truly enjoy. Not saying piss it away or go into debt, but spending wisely on a passion is all well and good provided it's money you can afford to spend. You can't take it with you, so don't feel bad about it. My 2 cents anyway.
 
The problem we have is passion and caring about the cars we get. Those that make money have no emotions or attachments to the parts or projects. They are simply a means to an economic end. I overpaid for both my cars, but they have given me mostly joy and satisfaction. They'll never be show cars but I don't really care about that. I'll also never get out of them the money i've spent, but will have the memories and enjoyment of driving that old iron down the road. Talking to people about what they are and their history is part of it too. So if you're in it for the money, have to take out the emotions and never sell something because you have to or need to.
 
You mentioned that you have a Mopar friend here in Missouri.
With his permission please PM me his contact info. We are always looking for another Mopar Guy here to swap parts and lies. LOL
Thanks in advance
 
cosgig said:
I guess I’m in another camp than most people. In the swap circles I’m known as the “cheap parts guy”. I just want to sell the excess parts to fund my interest in the hobby. I happen into cars and only pay what I think they’re worth, or I walk away. I’m now doing a “preservation” on my latest car. I don’t care if it has some rust, I’m only fixing the mechanicals and driving it like it is. I trade and barter with other hobbiests to get things done on my cars. My time spent on hobby cars is free, I get paid at my real job and keep all my finances separate. If I can’t afford to buy something for the hobby, I wait. I don’t use credit cards, I just save up the money from selling parts. If it takes 10 years, that’s what it takes me. I have way bigger priorities in my life than hobby cars, but love to work on them any chance I get. They’ll get there in time, which is fine with me.
Click to expand...
Well said Geof.
 
512Stroker said:
You mentioned that you have a Mopar friend here in Missouri.
With his permission please PM me his contact info. We are always looking for another Mopar Guy here to swap parts and lies. LOL
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Will do. Where the heck is Freedom, Mo!!????????
I knew many many Mopar guys in NW Mo.and SWsince '85, but after I moved I lost most of their cell numbers. Who has a land line anymore!!? ha
 
I was raised somewhat poor by older parents that were young adults during the great Depression ( the real one).. My passion as a kid was quarter horses, and I learned that IF I learned to find a good one, how toget him trained, MY hobby would turn me a return on my labor and investment I still love and have quarter horses, but at 71 and triple bypass I try not to get bucked off anymore.
Then in 84 I bought my first old car, a 68 442 great survivor car for $1000. Traded it off for a paint job for my gooseneck trailer. Then I bought a 69 Roadrnner roller for $50 and turned that into $500. Over the next 20 years, maybe 30- 50 cars came and went, never kept count. The cars were my hobby, I loved them, BUT like the horses, I never felt my hobby should be a drain. Could I afford it all as a hobby? Yes, Can I still afford it as a hobby? Yes. But I refuse to be in a car upside down. Or a horse. just me.
I enjoy car people, ( those without big head egos). I have owned everything but a winge car, and turned down chance for 3 V code projects back in 94-5? but I don't like them, so I passed. If I was a true flipper I would have bought all 3 for the $12000.
I don't want any old Mopar that I regard as worth too many $ after I restore it, as I know from experience I will not drive it, and thus enjoy it for what it is, a car. So if I have $5-7000-8000 in a pretty much restored driver I am good. If I decide to let it go I at least get my $ back out. That my perspective.
I asked on FBBO what a decent restored driver, 66-7 Bel or Coronet say 318 car can be bought for real world. Usually over there, like here, you will find people that have had that model for years, many of them, and they know. So I hear, you will not find one for less than $15000. I started the cconversation saying I am not looking for an appraisal but my idea is about $8000 real world $. So one guy gets his panties in a wad, then another guy mentions a real nice car that has been advertised for sale a full year at $12,000 and NO takers.
So this is how I figure a project that has a decent running engine. usually an engine that some time in the past, it was freshened, maybe even rebuilt by PO. Costs of a decent driver for me and paying myself nothing in labor! Body/paint $700-1200, interior at $2000, front end tires brakes at $1500, exhaust, tune up, incidentals $700-1000. total is $4700-5900. OK so that is like $5000 to $6000. So IF I ant to end up with a decent restored driver: 66-7 B body 318 car ( not a RT or GTX), maybe luck up n a translanted big bloc and IF I want all tis for a total of $around $8000, I have to find thus project for like $2000--2500. I can't pay Joe on CL or Marketplace that $3000-3500 he demands for his PS roller!!!!
So how is it the guywith his restored 66 Bel. driver demands $15000 for it? Because, He paid the $3500 for the roller, and the bodyshop to do it for $5-6000 , bought an engine core and paid $3000 for its rebuild, another $100o for someone to freshen his 727, etc etc etc!!!!!! at $15000 he is still upside down! but I understand, it is is hobby and he can afford it all.
This is where prices come from????????? Rant done. ha
 
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