retard timing mechanically?

-
C

connerray

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
273
Reaction score
5
Location
clarksville ar
How would one retard timing with out the popular msd btm. Seems that 400 is a lot for an electrical box. Paying for the name? Is there some type of mech dizzy that can be setup to work?
I know the timing makes or breaks the motor due to detonation.
I'm in the very early stage of planing and learning but every time I search timing retard it comes up with the msd or I seen a pro comp one that didn't have good reviews.
 
Nice, that's a bit cheaper.
Any thing els out there? Preferably mechanical but that msd 6al-2 looks nice and possibly easy to tune.
 
You can electronically control the GM 8 pin HEI module. Get ahold of TrailBeast
 
67Dart273 said:
You can electronically control the GM 8 pin HEI module. Get ahold of TrailBeast
Click to expand...

I found it, but the company making the computer to control timing and stuff when out of business or didn't follow through with it...
It seemed promising until I got to the second to last post saying the company no long makes or never did sell the computer. Which ever the case was.
 
Go with the msd 6530 like kid said I tried to use the 8 pin hei with a Megasquirt and had bad luck controlling the timing I switched to a 6530 and the car runs a 100 times better its possible I pulled the plug to soon on the Megasquirt but I'm so much happier with the msd 6530
 
Just adapt a double sided vac advance diaphragm to your distributor. When pressure is applied to one side it will retard the timing.
 
If you are wanting it to retard 20 for start up. and run a locked distributor. This can be done with out a dime with travel . Using the slots and one light spring . If interested let me know.
 
I rigged an adjustable timing set-up on a Hemi once...worked perfectly. I used a choke cable and installed two set screws in the base of the distributor that would limit total advance/retard to something like 10 degrees. Choke cable all the way in was -5 (I think base timing with the locked distributor was 32 degrees.) Choke all the way out was +5. Had the distributor hold down shimmed so that it would allow easy movement, but held the distributor down in the hole. If you try this, make sure you use an O ring type dist. base and not the flat one that takes the gasket.
 
You can use the dual-pickup distributor too, with a switch to choose which timing trigger you want.
 
I've been saving my pennies for one of those programmable 6al boxes and will be ordering one before the end of the month. My car has needed another degree or two of initial timing for 2 years and I just haven't wanted to mess with it. I can't wait to not have to mess with mechanical springs and advance plates ever again.
 
Bakerlite said:
Just adapt a double sided vac advance diaphragm to your distributor. When pressure is applied to one side it will retard the timing.
Click to expand...

Did just that, worked fairly well. 4cyl turbo volvos have a vac advance boost retard canister on the distributor.

What I did was cut the arm off the mopar advance can and weld it to the arm of the volvo can.
One interesting thing though, the volvo can that I found at the local yard had 2 vac ports on it. You would think that one would be fore boost and the other would be for vacuum....NOT true, the top one is for both vac and boost. The lower one is vac only

One issue is that the alignment tab for the distributor cap is on the vac canister and the volvo unit doesn't have one, SO, you have to add one in the correct place or the cap can move around.
 
UOP said:
I've been saving my pennies for one of those programmable 6al boxes and will be ordering one before the end of the month. My car has needed another degree or two of initial timing for 2 years and I just haven't wanted to mess with it. I can't wait to not have to mess with mechanical springs and advance plates ever again.
Click to expand...

It's money while spent I messed with the Megasquirt for over two months banging my head against a wall. It took me a weekend to hook the msd up and the toad runs great.
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
I rigged an adjustable timing set-up on a Hemi once...worked perfectly. I used a choke cable and installed two set screws in the base of the distributor that would limit total advance/retard to something like 10 degrees. Choke cable all the way in was -5 (I think base timing with the locked distributor was 32 degrees.) Choke all the way out was +5. Had the distributor hold down shimmed so that it would allow easy movement, but held the distributor down in the hole. If you try this, make sure you use an O ring type dist. base and not the flat one that takes the gasket.
Click to expand...

That ran across my mind as well, just sounds like a pain to push and pull the cable when under boost.
 
What did they do in the old days when all the electronic crap wasn't around.
besides the vacuum can on the dizzy there has to be something more? Or is that the only thing they used back then?)
It is starting to sound like the msd is the over all "least headache to dollar" option.... :(
Poor boys can't hardly get a break around here haha.
 
They would advance it with travel and spring control as I stated. Its a no brainer. no cable or any movement of the distributor needed. It can be done without trial and error with two changes in the distributor.
 
connerray said:
That ran across my mind as well, just sounds like a pain to push the and pull the cable when under boost.
Click to expand...


I'm here to tell you when your in the cockpit of the vehicle and you go into a boosted state and your watching your afr like a hawk and the boost kicks in you don'thave time to worry aabout pulling a rip cord.
It's just my two cents but boosting a mopar isn't cheap why take any chances especially in the tuning stages....
 
srixon4406 said:
I'm here to tell you when your in the cockpit of the vehicle and you go into a boosted state and your watching your afr like a hawk and the boost kicks in you don'thave time to worry aabout pulling a rip cord.
It's just my two cents but boosting a mopar isn't cheap why take any chances especially in the tuning stages....
Click to expand...

I hear that, I was just looking for some other alternative as I hate electrical wiring and what knot, I'll probably use the msd btm. Sounds like the easiest setup and enuff info running around to get it set up.
The motor I'm building is a 96 318 magnum with stock cam and 9.5-1 (I know that's a fair bit of compression but it is what it is) going to be running a blow through carb.
I have seen were the guys over on magnum swap are running this same set up with a different cam and throwing 15 lbs at it and they have also thrown a 200 shot at it iirc (not at the same time as boost) and the stock bottom end holds just fine. (They built a 360 but I think there pretty much the same other than some cubes)
 
If pushing on a knob when the boost comes on seems like too much of a hassle, stay away from real race cars! Last one I drove had 2500 horsepower and had to be manually shifted before it got past the tree...by the same hand that was holding the brake.
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
If pushing on a knob when the boost comes on seems like too much of a hassle, stay away from real race cars! Last one I drove had 2500 horsepower and had to be manually shifted before it got past the tree...by the same hand that was holding the brake.
Click to expand...

This will be no were near a race car and no were near 1200 horse. It just a street beater that's going to have some boost. I'm not saying I'm lazy or that idea is impractical, I'm just stating that I don't want to have to pull a cable when I floor it... :)
Now mabey if there was a way to link it to the gas pedal, that would be sweet :cheers:
 
Build or pay... the option is up to you. Personally I like to build stuff.
You can also just hook your vac advance to the vac side of your intake manifold. Under vac (ie no boost) it will advance timing to whatever base timing you want and under boost it will retard it. Cost is $0...
This is what I will be using on my turbo build.
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
If pushing on a knob when the boost comes on seems like too much of a hassle, stay away from real race cars! Last one I drove had 2500 horsepower and had to be manually shifted before it got past the tree...by the same hand that was holding the brake.
Click to expand...
I've also seen this used on engines with a lot of initial timing that don't want to crank over. Works a treat !!
 
Bakerlite said:
Build or pay... the option is up to you. Personally I like to build stuff.
You can also just hook your vac advance to the vac side of your intake manifold. Under vac (ie no boost) it will advance timing to whatever base timing you want and under boost it will retard it. Cost is $0...
This is what I will be using on my turbo build.
Click to expand...
The only thing I can't build are parts that need welded. I can piece stuff together as long as it don't need welded.
But the big "$0" sparked my interest so all you do is run it to the manifold? I understand there isn't any vacuum in the intake at wot, so that keeps timing retarded enuff?
What is a good base timing?
 
How much timing are we talking here? If your timing is currently 35 and you need to take out 5 degrees for boost, why not just curve the distributor for 30 degrees? It's not ideal but if cheap is the main priority then it would work. Better than just running with the distributor locked all the time anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top