RUSTY FLOORS

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mopar jimmie

mopar jimmie

Mopar Jimmie
Joined
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HI EVERYONE , ON TO THE NEXT PROJECT IN MY DART , WHEN I BOUGHT IT THE FRONT FLOORS WERE BADLY RUSTED . I CONSIDERED FLOOR PANS BUT IT WAS RUSTED TO FAR UP THE TUNNEL FOR THAT . I ORDERED THE COMPLETE FLOOR FROM AMD AND WHILE I WAS WAITING FOR IT TO GET HERE A FRIEND ASKED ME HOW I WAS GONNA INSTALL IT . HE SUGGESTED 3M PANEL GLUE , INITIALLY I BALKED AT IT BUT AFTER ALOT OF RESEARCH I DECIDED TO USE IT . IT IS VERY EASY TO USE AND GIVES YOU AMPLE SET UP TIME TO GET THE PANEL WHARE YOU NEED IT . 24 HRS LATER ITS ROCK HARD WITH NO WELDING . IT REALLY LOOKS NICE AND CLEAN WHEN DONE AND ONCE ITS DRY ITS AS HARD AS BONDO AND SANDABLE , IT ALSO WORKED INCREDABLY WELL WITH THE 1/4 PATCHES I DID . THIS IS AN EASY WAY TO METAL WORK DONE WITHOUT WELDING .

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Since the floor pan is part of the structure, I can't say that I would trust bonding only. It looks like there is lots of rust left near the bonds. I certainly would have removed all visible rust before bonding
 
ALL THE BONDED AREAS WERE CLEANED , KEEP IN MIND MOST NEW CARS ARE BUILT WITH THIS BONDING MATERIAL .
 
But how do the quarter patches look and how did you accomplish it.
 
1963dartgt said:
But how do the quarter patches look and how did you accomplish it.
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I cut the rusty area out and cut an exact fit piece of metal to fit the hole , I set it in place with a magnet and glued around the replacement patch , in 24 hrs its as hard as bondo and sandable . I to was not so sure about this glue . after it dried I pushed the car side to side using the 1/4 patch only and it rocked the car with no issues , this stuff is really good . The floor was never fastened this strong when it was new . Keep in mind BMW, JAG, All the domestic OEMS use this now to build cars , the story I was told is the reason they glue now in place of weld is that welding causes computer issues in the car
 
Those rockest SpaceX sends up are all glued together also!!! yea right

There are advantages of being old and old fashioned, having a mig welder is one//
 
barbee6043 said:
Those rockest SpaceX sends up are all glued together also!!! yea right

There are advantages of being old and old fashioned, having a mig welder is one//
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I second the weld on the floors. All the car companies use panel bond to bond panels on what is essentially a very intricate skeleton designed to take almost all the impact. Im very curious on patch panels. Since im a poor man why couldnt i cut out my rear wheel wells and flange a quarter inch past the patch panel and use it there.
 
I think your trying to convince yourself that this is good method. The engineers your referring to that use this method to build these late model car are the grand children of the engineers that built these 50-60 year old cars that you are working on. It’s like converting a princess phone into a I phone. Now a really good idea would have been to mig weld these panels and then add your bonds to the seams.
 
I too like spot welds ecspecally with Unibody cars that are prone to torque flex. But to each there own. Some guys weld on rear quaerter panels but glue the outer wheel housing lip for a clean finish and too prevent rusting there. Me, weld ,prime, seamseal ,paint.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
I think your trying to convince yourself that this is good method. The engineers your referring to that use this method to build these late model car are the grand children of the engineers that built these 50-60 year old cars that you are working on. It’s like converting a princess phone into a I phone. Now a really good idea would have been to mig weld these panels and then add your bonds to the seams.
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Im just trying help guys , been doing this a long time and i am always open to new ideas , if you search you tube there all kinds of postings and tests that show this stuff out performing weld
 
1963dartgt said:
I second the weld on the floors. All the car companies use panel bond to bond panels on what is essentially a very intricate skeleton designed to take almost all the impact. Im very curious on patch panels. Since im a poor man why couldnt i cut out my rear wheel wells and flange a quarter inch past the patch panel and use it there.
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Yes I can see gluing panels that add little to structural strength.
 
1963dartgt said:
I second the weld on the floors. All the car companies use panel bond to bond panels on what is essentially a very intricate skeleton designed to take almost all the impact. Im very curious on patch panels. Since im a poor man why couldnt i cut out my rear wheel wells and flange a quarter inch past the patch panel and use it there.
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FYI i own two mig welders and a tig. But i dont wonna debate this with you , look at the videos on you tube , its really crazy how good this stuff works , if you think welding better , then ignore this post
 
mopar jimmie said:
FYI i own two mig welders and a tig
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Im not questioning your ability. Hell ive seen guys install roof skins with the stuff on a 55 studebaker. I just never thought of using it for patch panels. I live in the sticks and for someone to weld my rear quarter skins for me cost more that what my old darts worth. I cant weld bu i sure can measure,cut,flange and glue a panel on. Me personally i couldnt do a floor id be to worried about it.
 
1963dartgt said:
Im not questioning your ability. Hell ive seen guys install roof skins with the stuff on a 55 studebaker. I just never thought of using it for patch panels. I live in the sticks and for someone to weld my rear quarter skins for me cost more that what my old darts worth. I cant weld bu i sure can measure,cut,flange and glue a panel on. Me personally i couldnt do a floor id be to worried about it.
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you dont flange , cut it for exact fit and set it in place with a fabricating magnet then glue around the seem . in 24 hrs its rock hard and sandable
 
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Kendog 170 said:
I too like spot welds ecspecally with Unibody cars that are prone to torque flex. But to each there own. Some guys weld on rear quaerter panels but glue the outer wheel housing lip for a clean finish and too prevent rusting there. Me, weld ,prime, seamseal ,paint.
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And i used to do exactly that , now i get 100 percent bonding on the entire surface , with a spot weld i have bonding at spot of the weld and nothing inbetween , beleive me it took a while to convince myself of this stuff . I actually whent as far duplicatinting the tests that i saw , i glued two pieces of sheet matal and stretched them in a jig i made on my cherry picker it tore the metal , the glue stayed bonded , in the case of spot and mig it broke the weld .im not sure i would glue in a frame rail ( although i think it would work ) but a floor is fine , that floor is stronger then it was when built new. This car is getting 600 hp 415 stroker with a 4 speed . I have zero worrys about it .
 
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I guess if that adhesive gives the same strength as a weld, it is wonderful.
A weld is actually stronger material than the material it fuses.
Discussion and opinions is what this is all about.
 
barbee6043 said:
I guess if that adhesive gives the same strength as a weld, it is wonderful.
A weld is actually stronger material than the material it fuses.
Discussion and opinions is what this is all about.
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I totally agree , in the test i saw and in my own test , it tore the metal and the glue never seperated , beleive me im an instand red flag with this kinda stuff , this stuff is really fun to work with and saves hrs of prep , not only does it bond but when its dry its also seam sealed
 
This is a very interesting thread, and this is something I have pondered over in the past but was too chicken to try it.

I am a journeyman welder, and understand how the welding process works obviously.
That being said, I am also open to new ideas when it comes to joining sheet metal together without welding.
The problem with welding sheet metal is the distortion factor as well as the soundness of the weld when it comes to pinholes and slag inclusions etc. especially by amateurs.
I was under the impression that when you use any kind of panel bonding method, that you would need to flange and lap the two parts together and rigidly clamp it or screw it together so that the fit was as tight as you can get it.
And of course, cleanliness of the two attaching points would be very crucial on the final outcome when it comes to strength and the joint lasting under stress. (The same goes for welding as well)
I for one would like to see pictures of your stress tests that you say that you performed.
If the welded bond failed at the weld, the the welding process wasn't good enough.
The parent material should always fail before the weld does.

If this stuff is all that you make it out to be, I personally wouldn't weld another panel on a car.
Finally, my thoughts are that if you are 100% correct, the advantages to using panel bond would make the bodyworking process a lot easier to say the least and have corrosion of the joint area down to a very minimum long term.
Did the magnetic welding clamp that you used to hold the parts together have a cellophane or plastic covering to keep it from sticking to the panel bond?
Another question that I have is how well do the primers and paint and or filler react with this adhesive?

Thank you for being brave and posting this...........
 
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