RUSTY FLOORS

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This is a very interesting thread, and this is something I have pondered over in the past but was too chicken to try it.

I am a journeyman welder, and understand how the welding process works obviously.
That being said, I am also open to new ideas when it comes to joining sheet metal together without welding.
The problem with welding sheet metal is the distortion factor as well as the soundness of the weld when it comes to pinholes and slag inclusions etc. especially by amateurs.
I was under the impression that when you use any kind of panel bonding method, that you would need to flange and lap the two parts together and rigidly clamp it or screw it together so that the fit was as tight as you can get it.
And of course, cleanliness of the two attaching points would be very crucial on the final outcome when it comes to strength and the joint lasting under stress. (The same goes for welding as well)
I for one would like to see pictures of your stress tests that you say that you performed.
If the welded bond failed at the weld, the the welding process wasn't good enough.
The parent material should always fail before the weld does.

If this stuff is all that you make it out to be, I personally wouldn't weld another panel on a car.
Finally, my thoughts are that if you are 100% correct, the advantages to using panel bond would make the bodyworking process a lot easier to say the least and have corrosion of the joint area down to a very minimum long term.
Did the magnetic welding clamp that you used to hold the parts together have a cellophane or plastic covering to keep it from sticking to the panel bond?
Another question that I have is how well do the primers and paint and or filler react with this adhesive?

Thank you for being brave and posting this...........
Ok , first off i am a journeymen welder in my own mind , i think i can weld fairly well in my own little world , by no means do i have your experience or ability with a welder. , i did not flange anything , i but aligned it with the magnets and glued the seams , ( would flanging it work better , likely yes )but it really didnt seem to matter . i didnt cover the magnet and it did not stick to the magnet . It sands like bondo and paints just fine . I sanded it with a da and finished it with bondo ( skin coat ) . The first time i used it was in the gargage and it took 24 hrs to set up , the second time i parked it in the sun and it set up in 4 hrs . I hope this helps feel free to contact me
 
This is a very interesting thread,
Another question that I have is how well do the primers and paint and or filler react with this adhesive?

Thank you for being brave and posting this...........
The manufacturers of the glue suggest keeping the glue margins to a minimum as most anything does not want to stick to it. It almost has a waxy feel to it.
 
The manufacturers of the glue suggest keeping the glue margins to a minimum as most anything does not want to stick to it. It almost has a waxy feel to it.
I brush the first coat on with an acid brush then apply a rope like line before i apply the panel
 
you dont flange , cut it for exact fit and set it in place with a fabricating magnet then glue around the seem . in 24 hrs its rock hard and sandable

So then there's no overlap? It's a butted bond?
 
Sorry but I feel Overlpap is a must. You would have to grind and bondo 1 side leaving only the backside glue for strenght if butt glued. I'm out.
 
Sorry but I feel Overlpap is a must. You would have to grind and bondo 1 side leaving only the backside glue for strenght if butt glued. I'm out.
Or add a backer but, even clamping and mil thickness is critical in structural areas. Thats why they incorporate the glass beads.
 
Plus they are known to "read through" on shiny finishes. Especially with thick bond lines.
 
So then there's no overlap? It's a butted bond?
Yes , now i did this knowing i was stepping out of the box but i had to see if there were limitations on how far out i could step. after it set up i put hands on the patched metal only and rocked the the car violently side to side and got no deflection in the panel or damage . I do agree flanging is a better method but this was more of a discovery then a text book fix. ( no overlap and yes butted )
 
Yes , now i did this knowing i was stepping out of the box but i had to see if there were limitations on how far out i could step. after it set up i put hands on the patched metal only and rocked the the car violently side to side and got no deflection in the panel or damage . I do agree flanging is a better method but this was more of a discovery then a text book fix. ( no overlap and yes butted )

I understand. BUt what about where the floor meets any frame rail sections? What was done there? I'll be the first to admit there's some pretty badass adhesives on the market. Having just worked in a body shop as my last and most recent job, plus previous body shop experience. There's some real alien technology out there. I would still want real WELDS where the floor pan meets any frame rails, though.
 
Or add a backer but, even clamping and mil thickness is critical in structural areas. Thats why they incorporate the glass beads.
I understand. BUt what about where the floor meets any frame rail sections? What was done there? I'll be the first to admit there's some pretty badass adhesives on the market. Having just worked in a body shop as my last and most recent job, plus previous body shop experience. There's some real alien technology out there. I would still want real WELDS where the floor pan meets any frame rails, though.
I glued it to the cross memeber , im of the feeling if 100k jag has a glued together chassis my floor is fine , i dont expect everyone to buy into this , but i myself am totally sure this is stronger then any weld . You could never get this much adhesion by any type of weld .Welds every few inches leaves unwelded metal every few inches and at the end of the job theres many feet of unwelded metal But again im just offer you an option. i pondered all these questions and the panel bonder just just kept looking better. Im by no means telling you not to weld im sharing my experience with this product
 
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I glued it to the cross memeber , im of the feeling if 100k jag has a glued together chassis my floor is fine , i dont expect everyone to buy into this , but i myself an totally sure this is stronger then any weld . You could never get this much adhesion by any type of weld .Welds every few inches leaves unwelded metal every few inches and at the end of the job theres many feet of unwelded metal But again im just offer you an option. i pondered all these questions and the panel bonder just just kept looking better. Im by no means telling you not to weld im just sharing my experience with this product
I agree with you on the floor if used properly. I waiting for the test on the quarter patch.
 
Never buy an old Mopar that was restored by a nerd or millenium!! lol... OK I 'm sorry, that was mean!!!!! lol, again!
Hey now i dont associate with those millenials. They say i am one but we're not all stupid and lazy,maybe its 'cause i got my *** whooped when i was little.:lol:
 
Hey now i dont associate with those millenials. They say i am one but we're not all stupid and lazy,maybe its 'cause i got my *** whooped when i was little.:lol:

If all milleniums got their asses whipped occasionally,maybe they would be referred to as something more flattering! LOL! I was giving giving out some of my dry humor!! But I bet 99% of the comments on this body glue is to how great it is comes from milleniums!!! lol
And someone used the glue to make a butt joint! Did I read that correctly!? lol I rest my case.
Carry on!!
 
Thats why i liked the idea of a lap joint. You could get it right glue it on,lead the seam and smooth with body filler instead of paying the body man.My thought is on quarter panel it wouldnt be bad. I have a 11 y/o boy who wants the dart come driving age and im not gonna drop a ton of money into something he'll wrap around the pole trying to impress his friends. Maybe ill just fill them with fiberglass and enjoy the 5 or so years i got left with it.
 
If all milleniums got their asses whipped occasionally,maybe they would be referred to as something more flattering! LOL! I was giving giving out some of my dry humor!! But I bet 99% of the comments on this body glue is to how great it is comes from milleniums!!! lol
And someone used the glue to make a butt joint! Did I read that correctly!? lol I rest my case.
Carry on!!
Hey mill , I started this post and im 59 , I worked as a Dodge tech / shop foreman from 1980 to 1999 , I have a master tech ring and was 5 star certified when I retired . Does that meet your requirement barbee , wait a minute are you a doll ? LOL just my dry humor
 
I glued it to the cross memeber , im of the feeling if 100k jag has a glued together chassis my floor is fine , i dont expect everyone to buy into this , but i myself am totally sure this is stronger then any weld . You could never get this much adhesion by any type of weld .Welds every few inches leaves unwelded metal every few inches and at the end of the job theres many feet of unwelded metal But again im just offer you an option. i pondered all these questions and the panel bonder just just kept looking better. Im by no means telling you not to weld im sharing my experience with this product

I'm not knockin what you did at all. I simply asked HOW. I also acknowledged that there some really great adhesives out now. I'm on your side. With as much contact area as you have, it's likely not going anywhere.
 
Hey mill , I started this post and im 59 , I worked as a Dodge tech / shop foreman from 1980 to 1999 , I have a master tech ring and was 5 star certified when I retired . Does that meet your requirement barbee , wait a minute are you a doll ? LOL just my dry humor
Ok, I haven't heard anything I don't like about this product. And thank you for doing the testing and research for us. I'm very curious about other uses for this like a rusted out windshield channel where you would put several pieces together. One thing I didn't hear mentioned was that with this sealing up an overlapped seam there is virtually no way for moisture to get in there. Another question, is there any waste of the product? Can you use only what you need without guessing?
I have a welder also but this is interesting.
Thanks, Steve
 
Hi Steve , I think it would work , you could do that with this product, it drys rock hard and you can sand and shape it . The product has a cap that screws on so you can use only what you need . Just keep in mind it takes a while to dry . the first time I used it was in my garage and it took 24 hrs , the second time I parked the car in direct sun light and it dried in 4 hrs , so uv makes a huge difference , I wonder if a hand held hi intensity uv light could do even better . I have filled gaps with it and it worked fine . Also wear rubber gloves its sticky and gooey and gets on your hands easily .
 
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Hey mill , I started this post and im 59 , I worked as a Dodge tech / shop foreman from 1980 to 1999 , I have a master tech ring and was 5 star certified when I retired . Does that meet your requirement barbee , wait a minute are you a doll ? LOL just my dry humor


I-CAR and ASE certified collision repair tech and ASE certified refinishing tech with better than 25 years in the biz and I wouldn't think for a second of using panel adhesive on a structural component in a unibody under any circumstance. Door skins? Yes. Hood & trunk skins? Yes. That's what panel adhesive is designed for. But NEVER a floor pan in a unibody-especially to the extent you plan to. If I did that to a customer car I will be the first on the list of defendants in the court case when that component fails. And it will fail. It is not designed to handle that level of stress.

To each their own. It's your car; knock yourself out. But I wouldn't dare.
 
I-CAR and ASE certified collision repair tech and ASE certified refinishing tech with better than 25 years in the biz and I wouldn't think for a second of using panel adhesive on a structural component in a unibody under any circumstance. Door skins? Yes. Hood & trunk skins? Yes. That's what panel adhesive is designed for. But NEVER a floor pan in a unibody-especially to the extent you plan to. If I did that to a customer car I will be the first on the list of defendants in the court case when that component fails. And it will fail. It is not designed to handle that level of stress.

To each their own. It's your car; knock yourself out. But I wouldn't dare.
I by far i do not claim to know everything about this , keep in mind entire cars are assembled with this adhesive , all of your high end cars use it exclusively for frame rails , floors and body assembly . All the testing I have seen and experienced myself showed me this method is far superior to welding . You having 25 yrs experience in the business gives this thred another credible side to the story , but I will ask everyone to google it search the question at hand ( can I use 3m panel bond to glue a floor in ) the general opinion from industry professionals like you is overwhealmingly in favor of doing this , there are many people that have had accidents and welded parts failed and the panel bond didn't . There is a lengthly thread on the HAMB about this subject also on the Bronco forum those guys there deal with major rust issues and they all use it without issue. Again your opinion is welcome here and appreciated . Im happy we are getting all sides of this story . I glued my floor in and its rock solid and makes no noise going down the road , im sold , would I glue a frame rail in with it , I think that might be my limit although new cars have glued together frames . I own 2 migs welders and a tig . I have the option of welding , If you go to the 3m web site they actually show industry professionals like you demonstrating how to do structural repairs with this bonder. I think you will agree 3m is a respected company in your business and there promoting this . But again go to 3m website and see for yourself
 
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Heres a pic that shows what were all discussing

Fusor-2098-Drop-Tower-Test_High-Res_5058.jpg
 
Hey mill , I started this post and im 59 , I worked as a Dodge tech / shop foreman from 1980 to 1999 , I have a master tech ring and was 5 star certified when I retired . Does that meet your requirement barbee , wait a minute are you a doll ? LOL just my dry humor
Wow! At 59you must be the oldest Millenium on record!! Yes my dad's uncle wife's cousin invented the Barbee doll what 60 years ago, he was goning to give our family like 5 million $ he had so much... but he got into the old car restoration hobby and lost it all before we got a penny!!! lol
I am a certified auto ????. I am so smart I only guy the sorry plastic gloves at HF!! lol
No really if the glue deal suits people and it works like d]said that is great. I will still be old school, and cut, fab, weld..... I am so old school and frugal I just fab my floor pans 99% of the time. Welding is the fast and easy part. Glue makes me dizzy!???? lol
 
HI EVERYONE , ON TO THE NEXT PROJECT IN MY DART , WHEN I BOUGHT IT THE FRONT FLOORS WERE BADLY RUSTED . I CONSIDERED FLOOR PANS BUT IT WAS RUSTED TO FAR UP THE TUNNEL FOR THAT . I ORDERED THE COMPLETE FLOOR FROM AMD AND WHILE I WAS WAITING FOR IT TO GET HERE A FRIEND ASKED ME HOW I WAS GONNA INSTALL IT . HE SUGGESTED 3M PANEL GLUE , INITIALLY I BALKED AT IT BUT AFTER ALOT OF RESEARCH I DECIDED TO USE IT . IT IS VERY EASY TO USE AND GIVES YOU AMPLE SET UP TIME TO GET THE PANEL WHARE YOU NEED IT . 24 HRS LATER ITS ROCK HARD WITH NO WELDING . IT REALLY LOOKS NICE AND CLEAN WHEN DONE AND ONCE ITS DRY ITS AS HARD AS BONDO AND SANDABLE , IT ALSO WORKED INCREDABLY WELL WITH THE 1/4 PATCHES I DID . THIS IS AN EASY WAY TO METAL WORK DONE WITHOUT WELDING .

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If it can be sanded as easy as bondo , it aint gonna have much integrity for torsional twist !
 
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