Service Technicians vs. Auto Mechanics
- Thread starter HAGJewels
- Start date
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The infiniti J30 and the 90-96 300zx had the double overhead caam motor vg30de and if yours is an SE it has the same motor....What years is yours?
Yeah, and they treat the "customer" like he doesn't know ****, when sometimes we actually do...
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
Here's an example of what we go through at training.
This is a 2012 Tuscon, it starts and runs, but will not shift out of park, and the motor driven steering is inop. The ABS, EBD, ESC and ETC lights on the dash are on.
You get a DVOM, the GDS (laptop communication tool) and the electrical schematic book to diagnose the vehicle. No screwdrivers, wrenches, or tools of any kind.
First step is to hook up the GDS to the OBDII port and see if there are any codes in any system. The vehicle will not communicate with the GDS at all.
What's your next step?
This is a 2012 Tuscon, it starts and runs, but will not shift out of park, and the motor driven steering is inop. The ABS, EBD, ESC and ETC lights on the dash are on.
You get a DVOM, the GDS (laptop communication tool) and the electrical schematic book to diagnose the vehicle. No screwdrivers, wrenches, or tools of any kind.
First step is to hook up the GDS to the OBDII port and see if there are any codes in any system. The vehicle will not communicate with the GDS at all.
What's your next step?
Just a stupid guess, but I would check the brake light switch.
That ranks up there as when people would see my wife -both times she was preggers- and look at us and say, "You two are pregnant." I would always retort "No, physiologically impossible on my behalf. I provide ingredients."
Yeah, I fit in here in Seattle REAL well.
daredevil
Well-Known Member
03 se
dartcuda1
67 Barracuda 500ci 6sp
Check the fuse for the OBDII port. Mark
Exactly "GuitarJones"... nowadays it requires an engineering way of thinking to work on these vehicles ... call it technician ,mechanic etc.... if you are not going to keep up with the times ... need to look for a new line of work... i call it JOB SECURITY !
Guitar Jones
aka Angry Johnny
Brake light switch doesn't fit for the no steering or lack of communication problem so that can be ruled out right away.
No need for the coffee either, this has to be diagnosed in a half hour or less or you fail the class.
The next step is to find, with the schematic where the high and low CAN wires are in the OBDII connector. This is where you find out that the wires are not where the schematic says they are (not uncommon). So without another vehicle to check to see if it's wired right you look for the wire colors as noted in the schematic. You find that instead of being in terminals 3 and 9 they are in terminals 6 and 12.
With the battery diconnected you measure 0.7 ohms between the high and low CAN wires.
The CAN system uses two termination resistors wired in parallel in two different controllers that measure 120 ohms each. So what should you be reading when you measure the resistance at the OBDII plug?
This is going to tell you what the problem is but not where it's at yet.
No need for the coffee either, this has to be diagnosed in a half hour or less or you fail the class.
The next step is to find, with the schematic where the high and low CAN wires are in the OBDII connector. This is where you find out that the wires are not where the schematic says they are (not uncommon). So without another vehicle to check to see if it's wired right you look for the wire colors as noted in the schematic. You find that instead of being in terminals 3 and 9 they are in terminals 6 and 12.
With the battery diconnected you measure 0.7 ohms between the high and low CAN wires.
The CAN system uses two termination resistors wired in parallel in two different controllers that measure 120 ohms each. So what should you be reading when you measure the resistance at the OBDII plug?
This is going to tell you what the problem is but not where it's at yet.
b5demon
Well-Known Member
Should be a little less than 60 ohms you have the can wires shorted to each other. Damb the Chrysler factory training is good for something.
funwithfuel
Well-Known Member
I suppose the biggest differentiation between techs n mechanics is can you repair a component or Do you just replace it. A couple of examples would be , you break off a hardened stud in an aluminum head, now what . Replace the head or drill and extract , another example . You cruise won't shut off your brake lig hts do not work it's 11 o'clock at night you need to be somewhere by morning . do you take the switch up parts and repair it or do you wait for morning to buy a new switch . I work for a heavy equipment dealer ,when doing a repair obviously we have to replace the units for warranty purposes w . but if you have an old guy was old equipment out of warranty not looking for anything else but to get running you make an efficient expedient repair with what you have available . this requires you to think outside the box I know they cars trucks and machinery are all different animals but they all work the same .everything now has can bus multiple computers and on board diagnostics II or OBDII . not to take anything away from technicians it takes a lot of smarts to understand all of these systems work together but I see some of these kids come out of school and call themselves technicians that could . not remove a broken screw or loosen a seized pipe.fitting. but I have seen other kids come out of technician training school and look for knowledge in the shops . it's out there it doesn't cost anything but just to ask . I think I am only met 2 mechanics in my life that would not share information everyone else has always help me to get to where I am now never right of the old guys they are willing to adapt just resistant to change .
funwithfuel
Well-Known Member
60 Khmer
funwithfuel
Well-Known Member
60 ohms texting and driving just doesn't work for me
funwithfuel
Well-Known Member
a cool trick I learned is to use a graphing multimeter for me or can I pick and roll if you don't see a fast and rapid square sine wave there is a problem if does signal is flat or has spikes is a job primary voltage to a secondary voltage would indicate on an oscilloscope for example that would be an indication of noise on your can or data line using this method has helped me find faulty individual issues in the past . a flatline usually indicates a shorted or dead can bus
funwithfuel
Well-Known Member
by the way the terminating resisters are in industry standard across all makes and models s a e j 1939
Ole buddy,you lost me at the TUSCON part what the hell is that!!.I better keep out of this one.the best Way I could fix that would be with a gallon of gas and a zippo.lol...........Artie:coffee2:
Your motor is a VQ35DE which is 3.5L but same motor that is in the G35.I35,
FX35 and Nissan 350zx....
Your forgiveness oh great one. I have been out of the auto service loop completely since 1999.
vitamindart
Well-Known Member
i did 10 years at the deal before it was sold. the new owner tossed everyone out on their ear ( we were union ). i dont care if it is a mom & pop shop or dealer they all have Good and Bad mechanics.
the little mom & pop shop we use to take our cars to tryied to hose us for 1500 for a couple loose hose clamps! i had a bad feeling when they gave me the quote so i took it to the dealer a ways away.
in an hour they called said it would be 200 and that included a head light , new hose clamps, topping off the coolant and a once over.
in my 10 years at the dealer i saw lots of cars other people couldn't fix (dealer or not)
get towed into my stall. did i fix every one the first time No and you wont Nobody can.
but i slept great every night and never ripped anyone off. or sold them something they didnt need.
no matter where you take your car you need to find someone you trust and knows the vehicle.
the little mom & pop shop we use to take our cars to tryied to hose us for 1500 for a couple loose hose clamps! i had a bad feeling when they gave me the quote so i took it to the dealer a ways away.
in an hour they called said it would be 200 and that included a head light , new hose clamps, topping off the coolant and a once over.
in my 10 years at the dealer i saw lots of cars other people couldn't fix (dealer or not)
get towed into my stall. did i fix every one the first time No and you wont Nobody can.
but i slept great every night and never ripped anyone off. or sold them something they didnt need.
no matter where you take your car you need to find someone you trust and knows the vehicle.
When I was calling around to the mom and pops, I asked one guy if he knew any low tech mechanics around that work on older cars. He said yeah, there's a few but they charge $150 an hour. He didn't offer any names and numbers. I guess he thought because of the make/model of my car or because I was a woman I couldn't possibly 'get it' that a car is worth that kind of love lol
I'd rather someone just be honest and say, "We aren't equiped to fix older cars, or if we do we have to charge so much to make it worth it that you won't like it." Give some realistic estimates in time and dollars, then let me decide.
At least I get that at the dealership plus a nice loaner car for the time part. My old car is my daily driver so I need her to pay the bills!
I'd rather someone just be honest and say, "We aren't equiped to fix older cars, or if we do we have to charge so much to make it worth it that you won't like it." Give some realistic estimates in time and dollars, then let me decide.
At least I get that at the dealership plus a nice loaner car for the time part. My old car is my daily driver so I need her to pay the bills!
Lonewolf3165
Living the Dream!
I dont care what you call me. Just don't compare what I do to the guy in the coveralls on the commercials who they potray to be a "grease monkey" like Gruber on Andy Griffiths. I don't mind being called a technician or mechanic if you respect what I have to do to be good at it. I can fixt the 50 year old stuff as well as the 2012 models because I have applied myself at my work & rose to the challenges put in front of me. Keeping up w/ new technology instead of fearing it. Learning from mistakes & knowing what my weakness may be & dilligently working to get better in those areas. I have worked mostly in dealerships my carreer, but have worked in independent shops & now own my own shop. The industry has changed from what it was for our fathers. It is way more specialized now than ever. That's also why you have a Service Advisor in the white shirt talk to you & not the technician. And the SA's job isn't easy either! I fix cars from the dealers & other independants who couldn't figure it out or more often then not, were just too lazy to go through the necessary steps to properly diagnose a problem.
It comes down to this: The quality of work you will get doesn't matter if it's from an independant or a dealer, only if the individual who is working on your car that day cares enough & is knowledged enough to do the job right. Flat rate pay systems force time & money to be a major consideration to most technicians(or mechanics) when job quality & customer satasfaction should be 1st priority.
I'm a Factory Trained & ASE Master Auto Technician w/ 30 years exp. & I'm proud of it because I know what it takes to be good!
It comes down to this: The quality of work you will get doesn't matter if it's from an independant or a dealer, only if the individual who is working on your car that day cares enough & is knowledged enough to do the job right. Flat rate pay systems force time & money to be a major consideration to most technicians(or mechanics) when job quality & customer satasfaction should be 1st priority.
I'm a Factory Trained & ASE Master Auto Technician w/ 30 years exp. & I'm proud of it because I know what it takes to be good!
b5demon
Well-Known Member
AGREE!! Flat rate time has alot to do with good or decent techs turning into hacks just to try to make time. Warranty flat rate times any more are a joke.
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