Sluggish 904 when cold or converter?

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roadrunnerh

roadrunnerh

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Hey guys,
I've owned this car for two years and when I fire up my 75 Scamp (225/904) and I shift into reverse to back out of my garage it harldy moves as if it has a high stall converter. It's not slipping in and out of gear, it's just real sluggish. The Trans NEVER slips, the fluid level is good, no leaks, and it only does this after sitting for a while and cool. What do you guys think would cause this? Thanks!
 
It's actually pretty normal. My '74 does it.

The converter drains back, and since the pump doesn't run in Park, it doesn't start filling back up until the trans is in gear or neutral.

The next time you have the chance, start the engine in Neutral, let it run 20 or 30 seconds then shift to reverse. I bet it engages firmly and takes right off.
 
if it makes you feel better mine does the same

and i will have to start in nuetral now after its ben sitten around thanks
 
no its not normal, its normal wear though... fluid is leaking around the bushing in the pump allowing the converter to drain as stated.

my 73 225/904 is doing it to lol... 104K miles, did it when I bought it at 89K
 
805moparkid said:
no its not normal, its normal wear though... fluid is leaking around the bushing in the pump allowing the converter to drain as stated.

my 73 225/904 is doing it to lol... 104K miles, did it when I bought it at 89K
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I agree, but there are a few places fluid can leak past, not just the pump bushings. We count it as normal since 99% of our old Mopars do it but in reality they shouldn't do it. Just like we shouldn't be stiffened up in the mornings when we get older but most of us are.

Roadrunner, even in spite of how I said it's not really normal don't worry about it and just do like Tyler said and you'll be ok. If you ever have to have the trans. rebuilt have all bushings replaced and a modified manual valve installed so it automatically fills in park as soon as the engine starts and go through the valve body real good and make sure nothings worn out.
 
fishy68 said:
I agree, but there are a few places fluid can leak past, not just the pump bushings. We count it as normal since 99% of our old Mopars do it but in reality they shouldn't do it. Just like we shouldn't be stiffened up in the mornings when we get older but most of us are.

Roadrunner, even in spite of how I said it's not really normal don't worry about it and just do like Tyler said and you'll be ok. If you ever have to have the trans. rebuilt have all bushings replaced and a modified manual valve installed so it automatically fills in park as soon as the engine starts and go through the valve body real good and make sure nothings worn out.
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Thank you for not making me type all that 805 and Fishy.
The shift kit/modified valve would cure it to, till it needed built anyway.
 
fishy68 said:
I agree, but there are a few places fluid can leak past, not just the pump bushings. We count it as normal since 99% of our old Mopars do it but in reality they shouldn't do it. Just like we shouldn't be stiffened up in the mornings when we get older but most of us are.

Roadrunner, even in spite of how I said it's not really normal don't worry about it and just do like Tyler said and you'll be ok. If you ever have to have the trans. rebuilt have all bushings replaced and a modified manual valve installed so it automatically fills in park as soon as the engine starts and go through the valve body real good and make sure nothings worn out.
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TrailBeast said:
Thank you for not making me type all that 805 and Fishy.
The shift kit/modified valve would cure it to, till it needed built anyway.
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I never heard about the P flow mod, can it be done on a stock valve body with a shift kit and also a cheetah manual reverse VB?
 
805moparkid said:
I never heard about the P flow mod, can it be done on a stock valve body with a shift kit and also a cheetah manual reverse VB?
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All it is, is a valve with the lands ground a little differently to seal the fluid in the VB, and lets the fluid circulate in park.
It's not that the pump doesn't pump in park, it's that the valve blocks the circulation in park.

The kit valve makes it where you can chk the fluid in park after that, because the fluid is circulating.

Chk out this link and about 1/3 of the way down the page.
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=20391.0
 
TrailBeast said:
All it is, is a valve with the lands ground a little differently to seal the fluid in the VB, and lets the fluid circulate in park.
It's not that the pump doesn't pump in park, it's that the valve blocks the circulation in park.

The kit valve makes it where you can chk the fluid in park after that, because the fluid is circulating.

Chk out this link and about 1/3 of the way down the page.
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=20391.0
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no I understand that, but will check the kit!
 
Nice to Know Trailbeast! Will be doing this mod from now on. Chrysler actually has TSB's concerning this issue and instructs customers to shift to Neutral before putting the vehicle in gear. Last one I saw was a Durango 2002? I think. LOL
 
Voeltagear said:
Nice to Know Trailbeast! Will be doing this mod from now on. Chrysler actually has TSB's concerning this issue and instructs customers to shift to Neutral before putting the vehicle in gear. Last one I saw was a Durango 2002? I think. LOL
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"Technical Service Bulletins"

Man I'm glad I don't have to use that term professionally any more. :D
 
805moparkid said:
I never heard about the P flow mod, can it be done on a stock valve body with a shift kit and also a cheetah manual reverse VB?
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Yeah what TB said. I'm sure it can be done on a stock body with a shift kit. They sell the kit to do just the pump mod or if you want to install a shift kit the Trans-go TF-2 kit comes with the modified manual valve as a part of it. That's another reason I recommend them. Not sure on the Cheetah valve body. Their highly modified factory valve bodies and may already have that mod done, or may not, not really sure. It may not even be possible to do with them since they modified the valve body so much.
 
fishy68 said:
Yeah what TB said. I'm sure it can be done on a stock body with a shift kit. They sell the kit to do just the pump mod or if you want to install a shift kit the Trans-go TF-2 kit comes with the modified manual valve as a part of it. That's another reason I recommend them. Not sure on the Cheetah valve body. Their highly modified factory valve bodies and may already have that mod done, or may not, not really sure. It may not even be possible to do with them since they modified the valve body so much.
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well its a TF2 for the swinger then! and i have a cheetah VB in the 68 and it drains back after awhile...
 
Don't get me wrong, they all drain back, even with a TF-2 kit installed. The kit just has you install a modified manual valve so it fills the converter in park just as soon as you start it up.

Do you have to shift the Cheetah VB into neutral so it'll fill the converter before it'll move or does it take right off as soon as you get it warmed up enough to move?
 
fishy68 said:
Do you have to shift the Cheetah VB into neutral so it'll fill the converter before it'll move or does it take right off as soon as you get it warmed up enough to move?
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That's good question, and be interesting to know anyway.
 
fishy68 said:
Don't get me wrong, they all drain back, even with a TF-2 kit installed. The kit just has you install a modified manual valve so it fills the converter in park just as soon as you start it up.

Do you have to shift the Cheetah VB into neutral so it'll fill the converter before it'll move or does it take right off as soon as you get it warmed up enough to move?
Click to expand...

if ive started it and moved it its fine for a week or so.

on the swinger its over nite lol
 
805moparkid said:
if ive started it and moved it its fine for a week or so.

on the swinger its over nite lol
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Either the trans with the Cheetah is a real tight trans or it the Cheetah VB fills in park, or maybe both. The Swinger sounds like most without the mod. Parking them on a upward hill makes them even worse. I had a 93 Dakota with a A518 and by the time it had 70,000 miles on it it was starting to drain back. Parked it on a steep hill once for a couple hours and it took it every bit of 45 seconds to fill the converter
 
fishy68 said:
Either the trans with the Cheetah is a real tight trans or it the Cheetah VB fills in park, or maybe both. The Swinger sounds like most without the mod. Parking them on a upward hill makes them even worse. I had a 93 Dakota with a A518 and by the time it had 70,000 miles on it it was starting to drain back. Parked it on a steep hill once for a couple hours and it took it every bit of 45 seconds to fill the converter
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naw i put the trans in N to fill it, ive started it and idled and dosn't fill. the trans was rebuilt not that long ago and maybe has a hundred passes and 5K on it. all stock internals just clearanced, except for the VB and converter... though i think im going to either go 200R4 or do the small block guts for better holding.
 
805moparkid said:
naw i put the trans in N to fill it, ive started it and idled and dosn't fill. the trans was rebuilt not that long ago and maybe has a hundred passes and 5K on it. all stock internals just clearanced, except for the VB and converter... though i think im going to either go 200R4 or do the small block guts for better holding.
Click to expand...

Ok, sounds like the Cheetah doesn't fill on it's own. Tnx for the info
 
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