Strange issue with my 904

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kaytbugsdad

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I rebuilt my 904 (non-lock up) in my 75 Swinger myself. First time ever rebuilding a transmission (searching this forum and buying an ATSG manual sure did make things easier)!!!! The issue I'm having with the trans is when it's cold, it does not want to go into reverse, slips badly (all other gears are great!!).... When the trans is warmed up, reverse works just fine, no slipping at all...... I checked line pressures and reverse is low, but 1, 2, and Drive are all fine...... Anybody have any ideas what it might be????
 
I rebuilt my 904 (non-lock up) in my 75 Swinger myself. First time ever rebuilding a transmission (searching this forum and buying an ATSG manual sure did make things easier)!!!! The issue I'm having with the trans is when it's cold, it does not want to go into reverse, slips badly (all other gears are great!!).... When the trans is warmed up, reverse works just fine, no slipping at all...... I checked line pressures and reverse is low, but 1, 2, and Drive are all fine...... Anybody have any ideas what it might be????
Check your low/ reverse band adjustment, could also be piston seal on servo
 
I agree with Moparman. That servo is used for both manual low and reverse. But in manual low, the sprag clutch is operating as well, so you might not notice a slow servo.
However the low pressure in reverse is a tell-tale of other issues. When you put a Torqueflite into reverse, it kills all other circuits and maxes out the line pressure to whatever the pump can put out, usually better than 220 psi@1000 rpm.(the spec is 230 to 260 @1600rpm) You didn't quote a number as to reverse pressure, but these pumps hardly wear, so even a high-mileage unit will often have a good pump. So my guess is that there is a problem in delivering that pressure to the reverse servo when the oil is cold.This also is backwards from the usual way of things.
The way reverse works, it also engages the hi-clutch. But this clutch is also used for 3rd grear. To separate these two circuits they put a little check ball in the apply line. If that ball was left out, pressure would creat havoc in other circuits which you didn't mention.
But more likely is missing the L/R checkball. When this happens,the oil goes into the Manual low circuit which If the selector is in reverse, dumps at the manual valve straight into the oilpan. Since the pump is operating at maximum, it would still apply the L/R band, just slowly. In Manual low, the oil would again continue past the L/R servo and back to the manual valve to be dumped. But now the sprag is the back-up, and you might not notice a slow-applying forward clutch.
So long story short, I'm guessing ball #4 got left out, or you put the wrong one in that location. There are 6 balls; 5 smalls, 5/16 IIRC and one large 3/8, for the hi-pressure relief, which is typically set to 275 psi.
So back to the pressure test, looking for say 260 to 275psi in reverse at some rpm higher than 1600. If you haven't got it by 2400(my estimate) , then something is wrong. If the pressure is slow to build, then something is wrong. If the band is set even remotely close,the pressure should hammer up to max pressure almost instantly. If it fails at both of these, I would be taking the VB off for a look-see. While that VB is off, I would repeat the air pressure test, and reset the band. Then go find that ball #4.
If I am right,and you leave it like this, chances are good that both the band and the drum will eventually be destroyed, Also since manual low is also weak, ever time you use it, those same parts will be wearing.And this puts a lot of extra strain on the sprag as you will be thinking the band has got a grip on things, when in fact the sprag will be doing all the work. Also since the forward clutch will be slightly slow to engage, those clutches are also subject to extra wear.
If I am right.
If I am wrong, the air-pressure check will ease your mind that the tranny can stay up there, and the band adjust will make Moparman happy,lol.
But I still think, baring a failure in the air-pressure test, that the problem is in the VB.
Best of luck to ya!
 
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In 1, 2, and Drive, the pressure is at about 60 psi at idle and increases to almost 100 with the throttle pressure lever all the way back....... Reverse has about 55 psi at idle and doesn't get much better from there....... I did a Fairbanks shift kit, and I was very meticulous about making sure everything was SUPER clean and even made sure all the balls got put back to where they were supposed to go....... definitely not opposed to dropping the valve body to do an air check!!!! I'm grateful for all the great advice I've gotten from you guys....... Thanks, and I'll post an update as soon as I get it checked out!!!!!
 
You didn't say full manual shift kit. In which case;do you realize that the ROADSPEED has to be such that the tranny is actually in the gear that you have selected.
If the rear wheels are doing zero mph, then no matter what forward gear you select, the tranny will be in low gear. It will stay in low until the governor commands a 1-2 shift. Then it will stay in 2nd until the governor pressure is high enough to command a 2-3 shift.

>But regardless, the verdict is in; You have a fault in the reverse circuit; It should be in the range of 260 to 275, not 55. There has to be a major leak in that circuit.And I can't see it being anything but the VB,the servo, or the seal rings in the hi-drum; you didn't put the Teflon ones with the non-interlocking ends, in there I hope. They are so hard to install correctly.
>The 60/100 you are seeing is about correct. Since 100 is greater than the 55 in reverse,we know the pump is not the problem. Since the servo pressure is also correct at 60/100 we know at least that the servo is in there,lol.
So, I'm sticking to post#3
 
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AJ/Form S, you hit the nail on the head!!!!! I did another air check on the trans and everything sounded normal........ Pulled the valve body apart, and wouldn't you know it, #4 check ball is missing!!!! Now I just have to find another check ball............
 
AJ/Form S, you hit the nail on the head!!!!! I did another air check on the trans and everything sounded normal........ Pulled the valve body apart, and wouldn't you know it, #4 check ball is missing!!!! Now I just have to find another check ball............
Ace Hardware has them.
 
A big thank you to everybody who responded!!!! AJ/Form S is the man!!!!! A little 1/4" check ball (a 25 cent part) came up missing when I took the valve body apart (thank you mderoy 340 for the Ace Hardware reference)...... Replaced it this morning, and the transmission works like brand new!!!!
 
AND, You did it in less than 2000 words,..............oh wait, one..two..three......
 
I rebuilt my 904 (non-lock up) in my 75 Swinger myself. First time ever rebuilding a transmission (searching this forum and buying an ATSG manual sure did make things easier)!!!! The issue I'm having with the trans is when it's cold, it does not want to go into reverse, slips badly (all other gears are great!!).... When the trans is warmed up, reverse works just fine, no slipping at all...... I checked line pressures and reverse is low, but 1, 2, and Drive are all fine...... Anybody have any ideas what it might be????
tell me more bout this ATSG manual and where i can get it????
 
I have them on pdf format ...but it is 17.2 mb file....for the 727/904 trans...

and pdf for 904/998/999 trans that is email able at 5.5 mb....
 
I have them on pdf format ...but it is 17.2 mb file....for the 727/904 trans...

and pdf for 904/998/999 trans that is email able at 5.5 mb....

id love a copy of the lil 904/998/999 5.5 file! what would i havta do to get a copy emailed to me???
 
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