Thinking of going to E85 on the Dart

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Mopar to ya

Mopar to ya

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As we are installing my 408 in the Dart, we are talking about the need to use race gas or adjust the timing when using pump gas. The thought is that using pump gas and dialing back the timing could bring me closer to 400hp rather than 500hp. Tom has a buddy who does an E85 changeover that involves rejetting the carb and a few other things. Tom tells me one of their race cars is set up that way. It has 105 octane, costs less, and would keep me from having to change timing all the time, giving me full power capability at all times. I could drive to the track and run on the same tank of gas. Plus it runs cooler and is available anywhere. Has anyone tried this yet? Anyone heard any feedback? I am leaning this way. I didn't put this motor in to have it detuned to run on the street.
 
From what I have read here it is not the ideal solution that it appears to be as the octane rating changes frequently......I do know it takes more volume than gasoline to produce the same power.....
 
Do it.. Just make sure u test it during the winter months when they usually change the oct of it.
 
E85 has a lower BTU rating, therefore more fuel must be burned to make the same power, you fuel system will need to supply about 30% more fuel.

the carb will need to be rejetted...Quick Fuel Technology make a kit with new metering blocks, also..you will need new steel needle n seats in carb plus larger squirter...

if you google racing with e85 you will find a ton of info...

I am changing over because of the cost of the fuel...e85 is easy to get here....I race two cars so the fuel cost is high...and I bought two new QF E85 950 DP carbs...LOL
 
E85 ideal ratio is like 9.76 to 1,where as gasoline is 14.7...
Problem I read about is getting true 85/15 all the time,Say you get a batch 70/30 and your fuel ratio changes.
It works a lot better on Fuel Injected Vehicle because you can compensate for your blend!
Here is a cheap test tube from summit that could check your actually blend,you could use a test tube and water but I forgot the formula:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/QFT-36-E85/
But yes do it !!! High octane and the timing you want.
Fuel injection would rule though...Just my .02 and no I have not done it but am considering it !
 
I have two mopar buddies here in Wis. that did it only to change back to 93 octane with a little 110 mixed in.They sent the carbs to some guy in Indiana who did the conversion to find out he screwed both carbs up,Then found another guru and fixed the carbs,Cars were set-up with a/f meter and they thought they were good to go only to find out they DID have to always play with the timing and had a hard time getting the engines to run right---Then come to find out--The proper way to run any high performance engine on E85 is to TEST the fuel EVERY time you get gas!!!! There are NO set standards on the processes of making E85 and different plants have different mixes should we say.So they are back to pump gas--GOOD LUCK -Let us know how it works---Check out mopar muscle mag. they did a article on this and found the same thing,You have to test the gas EVERYTIME you need gas--Steve
 
I switched last year from race gas to E-85, plus went to a 4150 from a dominator. I had pro systems do the carb for me. I live in Wisconsin, and struggled with the fuel from the pump all season. I only had actual E-85 for a brief period during the summer. I had a O2 sensor, but you have to check fuel to even know what ratio you need to be running. From my experience, I will never run it again. Yes, the car ran cool, and picked up power, but it is not user friendly. I'd rather just run race gas. If you live in Arizona although, you'd be fine. Nice dry, constant climate. For my blower build I'm not even considering E-85.
 
swifter said:
I have two mopar buddies here in Wis. that did it only to change back to 93 octane with a little 110 mixed in.They sent the carbs to some guy in Indiana who did the conversion to find out he screwed both carbs up,Then found another guru and fixed the carbs,Cars were set-up with a/f meter and they thought they were good to go only to find out they DID have to always play with the timing and had a hard time getting the engines to run right---Then come to find out--The proper way to run any high performance engine on E85 is to TEST the fuel EVERY time you get gas!!!! There are NO set standards on the processes of making E85 and different plants have different mixes should we say.So they are back to pump gas--GOOD LUCK -Let us know how it works---Check out mopar muscle mag. they did a article on this and found the same thing,You have to test the gas EVERYTIME you need gas--Steve
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This is right on. I had the exact same issues.
 
The guy helping me with my motor and tranny install is a good friend and is the crew chief on a race team. He has a friend locally who does this with great results. They actually have one of the race cars set up for it. It would be tuned and timed at the same time, so I am not concerned about having to send carbs out or not being able to get help if I run into problems. The really good info I am getting is about the quality of the fuel. That is very interesting. I don't run this car in the winter, where I understand the worst E85 fluctuations happen, but whenever it happens it could be an issue. I like the price and availability of high octane fuel. Race gas is not available easily and is expensive. If I ran a mix, I would need to buy a portable tank and pump, and I would use so much on a regular drive that it would almost be cost prohibitive. Good info here. I'm going to think long and hard on this. Thanks, guys!
 
from what i understand the 105 rating is a PR thing... public relations spin.. that is the research rating

the testing shows that E85 at the retail pumps actually measures between 94 and 96 octane.

but it might actually solve your issue, so that you dont need to adjust your timing all the time.
 
Yes, it's all about the fuel. If the government regulated it, that would be great. Not that I'm a fan of government regulations. I would still run E85 if it was E85 all the time. I ran into around a 70 - 76% mix most of the time. So test and rejet and check air/fuel ratio. It is a bit hard on carb gaskets, be sure to drain the fuel. I left mine in for a couple of weeks and could barely get the carb apart, stuck together. The car did ran good though, once I had it adjusted for the summer mix. Just make sure to check the mix. Hate to be set up for a 70% mix and it's 85%, you'd be running lean. The other way at least you'd be on the rich side. Another thing, I went from a half pump to start, to literally pumping 15 times or more to start. Took a long time to get use to that. ProSystems did my carb and it worked great. It wasn't that expensive either and they had great customer service. Hope this helps at all. Good luck.
 
I also would LOVE to do the e85 thing because I got rides in the cars my buddies had before and after and the Difference was simple amazing!!!! But I want to be able to go out pump once start her up and go beat the tar out of her not wanting to do all the screwing around--The weird thing her in Wis. is theE85 plant is maybe 50 miles from here so you think turn around time with the gas sitting in the tank would be good but I see more people filling with compressed natural gas than the E85 it's weird --Now I'm seeing more propane vehicles too.--Steve
 
Rocket brand does make an E85 by the barrel. I couldn't find it by me, but that is a nice option if you can get it. They rate it a 112 octane.
 
LXguy said:
What's the CR? Dynamic and static?

Aluminum or iron heads?
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The motor I got from you is in and close to running, LXGuy. I put a 200R4 behind it and TTi headers. The headers are my main issue with it not being on the road yet, but I expect that 408 to be running this weekend.
 
I have run the E85 at 14:1 compression, but I mixed my own from a 55gal drum of ethanol and premium pump gas. What I didn't like was the corrosion I ran into with aluminum parts exposed to the ethanol. If the aluminum isn't annodized, it will result in a white powder on everthing. I had to drain the E85 and run race gas through it before I let the engine sit for any period of time. The best solution is to build the engine to run on pump gas from the beginning. Doing so results in very little overall power loss. Criminy, the 451 ran on 91 octane and made 787 HP.
 
With 1 station in my area I would not even consider it......
 
IQ52 said:
The best solution is to build the engine to run on pump gas from the beginning. Doing so results in very little overall power loss. Criminy, the 451 ran on 91 octane and made 787 HP.
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I know of one individual that got over 900 hp on a pump gas (91 octane) HEMI....
 
Why don't you order the test kit and take different samples and see how the stations stack up to the quality of the E85???? Small investment and It may help you make the decision on weather or not to invest the money to go to E85--??? Steve
 
Mopar to ya said:
I live in a small town that still has five gas stations for 8000 people. All of them carry E85. Interestingly, there are 3 Holiday stations in my town and they are all within sight of each other.
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The one station that is listed is close to 40 miles from home. Last time I was in that neighborhood it looked like they were closed. When I lived in AZ there was only a few stations, that I knew of that sold it, and I lived in a town of 300,000 or so. Be nice if it were more available. Just checked on one of the web sites, they are still listed. Said the only station within 200 miles of the zip I put in......
 
swifter said:
Why don't you order the test kit and take different samples and see how the stations stack up to the quality of the E85???? Small investment and It may help you make the decision on weather or not to invest the money to go to E85--??? Steve
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Yup, I thought of that. I am going to do just that. Good idea.

And Inkjunkie .... that's because you live in the sticks. I have learned in life you live where you want to live and work and play where you have to. There's lots to be said for the sticks!
 
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