Timing

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dartlove

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So I am looking for some experienced thoughts a suggestions on initial timing and total timing. Wanting to set up timing curve. Here it is 383 stroked to 496.
383 .060 over (4.310 bore). 4.250 stroke. Trick flow max wedge 270 heads 70cc. 1.5 harland sharp rockers. Cam is custom grind. Cam lift is int.440 duration282. Exh.429 duration 286.
Valve lift int .660 duration 322
Exh .643 326 duration.
Compression is 14:1. Looking for a good starting point for initial timing and total timing @some where 2800 rpm
 
I would start out 10 degrees initial and 34 total be on the safe side ! Your probably going to end up at 12 initial and 36 total ! But play with it ! All of these numbers are starting points ! Your motor combo may like more than usual!! Or it may like less ! As long as it starts well and has no detonation you are golden !!
 
So I am looking for some experienced thoughts a suggestions on initial timing and total timing. Wanting to set up timing curve. Here it is 383 stroked to 496.
383 .060 over (4.310 bore). 4.250 stroke. Trick flow max wedge 270 heads 70cc. 1.5 harland sharp rockers. Cam is custom grind. Cam lift is int.440 duration282. Exh.429 duration 286.
Valve lift int .660 duration 322
Exh .643 326 duration.
Compression is 14:1. Looking for a good starting point for initial timing and total timing @some where 2800 rpm

Ur engine is hotter than ,mine (more comp.) and a bigger cam.
I`m running 22 initial and 36 @3000 right now on 93 pump qas , still experimenting---------

Andy F. just posted he`s running 25 initial on his latest build > dustbin duster .
Pretty much take his word to the bank !
 
I would start out 10 degrees initial and 34 total be on the safe side ! Your probably going to end up at 12 initial and 36 total ! But play with it ! All of these numbers are starting points ! Your motor combo may like more than usual!! Or it may like less ! As long as it starts well and has no detonation you are golden !!
Thanks for helping. How many cams in the 282/286 duration at .050" lift have you personal experience with?
 
Ur engine is hotter than ,mine (more comp.) and a bigger cam.
I`m running 22 initial and 36 @3000 right now on 93 pump qas , still experimenting---------

Andy F. just posted he`s running 25 initial on his latest build > dustbin duster .
Pretty much take his word to the bank !
Thank you.
 
What I understand from what you wrote If you have that much duration that much lift that much compression... I'm going to go ahead and assume you have an MSD setup with no vacuum advance but just mechanical. In which case you would probably be putting the lightest Springs available. Then one of two things having initial way over 20 send all in at 34 to start with and see where it back down to. Likely you have a 12 degree swings and it will go back down to 22 for your initial which is where mine is at.. on the other hand you could just lock it out at 34 and start doing passes down the track and figuring out what's best, but you would need a start retard....
 
What I understand from what you wrote If you have that much duration that much lift that much compression... I'm going to go ahead and assume you have an MSD setup with no vacuum advance but just mechanical. In which case you would probably be putting the lightest Springs available. Then one of two things having initial way over 20 send all in at 34 to start with and see where it back down to. Likely you have a 12 degree swings and it will go back down to 22 for your initial which is where mine is at.. on the other hand you could just lock it out at 34 and start doing passes down the track and figuring out what's best, but you would need a start retard....
You are correct. I have MSD AL-3. I normally run locked out. With this build I decided to check out playing with timing. Right now initial is at 20* total @38* The 20* seemed a little high to me. But from what I am reading lately with my cam and compression that is normal. I do have the blue springs in.
 
You are correct. I have MSD AL-3. I normally run locked out. With this build I decided to check out playing with timing. Right now initial is at 20* total @38* The 20* seemed a little high to me. But from what I am reading lately with my cam and compression that is normal. I do have the blue springs in.
20 I think would be just about bare minimum. You have a 18 degree stop inside your distributor? What is your cranking compression? How did you come to 38 being your sweet spot?...
 
20 I think would be just about bare minimum. You have a 18 degree stop inside your distributor? What is your cranking compression? How did you come to 38 being your sweet spot?...
This is what we had set it at. Yes 18* stop. This was all based on talking to other racers and their set ups. 38* was a starting point. I was told that the big blocks such as mine like a little more timing. Have not been able to get to the track to test yet. Just wanting a starting point.
 
This is what we had set it at. Yes 18* stop. This was all based on talking to other racers and their set ups. 38* was a starting point. I was told that the big blocks such as mine like a little more timing. Have not been able to get to the track to test yet. Just wanting a starting point.
Big block small block 4 cylinder... Timing is something most people creep up on, they don't try to maximize and work your way back...
 
So I am looking for some experienced thoughts a suggestions on initial timing and total timing. Wanting to set up timing curve. Here it is 383 stroked to 496.
383 .060 over (4.310 bore). 4.250 stroke. Trick flow max wedge 270 heads 70cc. 1.5 harland sharp rockers. Cam is custom grind. Cam lift is int.440 duration282. Exh.429 duration 286.
Valve lift int .660 duration 322
Exh .643 326 duration.
Compression is 14:1. Looking for a good starting point for initial timing and total timing @some where 2800 rpm

It's been my long held understanding that to find initial timing for a specific combination, you simply slowly advance the timing at idle until the idle speed no longer increases (max vacuum).

In other words, start with your initial somewhere around 10 to 15 initial, warm the car, increase the timing slowly while turn down the idle if it goes above your normal idle speed, and keep advancing the initial until the idle speed no longer increases. Then back the timing off to get the initial timing right at the very point that advancing it any more no longer increases the idle. Adjust your idle A/F on the carb to 3/4 of a turn above lean mis-fire.

Once the initial is set, you can adjust the mechanical advance so the total timing does not exceed 34 to 36 total. Track or dyno testing will give you your final total timing.

I ended up locking out my MSD Pro-billet locked out at 34 total. It didn't need a start retard even when hot, but I only have 200 psi cranking compression.

I've since gone with the Progression Ignition programmable distributor specifically for the programmable vacuum advance feature. My initial and total mechanical advance are pretty much set-up at 35 from idle up with the vacuum advance bring it up to 42 at cruise & light throttle. It must be hooked to manifold vacuum, so the timing falls back when the throttle blades are opened.

The nice thing about this set-up is that it's programmable in real time and you get easy to real real time feedback while tuning.
 
20 I think would be just about bare minimum. You have a 18 degree stop inside your distributor? What is your cranking compression? How did you come to 38 being your sweet spot?...
So if my initial timing is say 20*, i have an 18* stop in my distributor. How do I keep it from total 38*? I know everybody is different, every engine isn't the same. Everything I have read is 34-36* total. I must be missing something (not understanding). I completely know how to set total on a locked out distributor. I haven't looked into it but can I buy a larger stop to lower total advance?
 
So if my initial timing is say 20*, i have an 18* stop in my distributor. How do I keep it from total 38*? I know everybody is different, every engine isn't the same. Everything I have read is 34-36* total. I must be missing something (not understanding). I completely know how to set total on a locked out distributor. I haven't looked into it but can I buy a larger stop to lower total advance?
yes my MSD came with a bunch of different stops and a bunch of different Springs basically it was a little circle piece of metal and they're colored as well as the Springs. To give you a different amount of total timing..
 
I'm thinking the best initial timing for this combo will be...... :BangHead: is anyone's guess.
It's time to break out the vacuum gauge
 
Well I messed with the timing a little today. Current starting point is18* initial all in 36*. I will play with it from there.
 
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