My '72 Dart 440 currently has a Torker 2 intake, mild cam, 770 Street Avenger carb, stock heads, TTI headers, 3000 stall Hughes convertor (which sucks!!), reverse manual valve body 727 and 4:10 gears. Timing is 18 degrees initial, 38 degrees total, no vacuum advance. Manifold vacuum is 6" at 850rpm. I don't drag the car and never will. I'm looking for a little more low end grunt, so I purchased a Perform RPM dual plane intake. Is it really worth the switch versus the single plane Torker 2 that's currently on there??
Torker 2 vs Performer RPM?
- Thread starter scooby67
- Start date
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Yes.
OldmanRick
Well-Known Member
The RPM may be a hair taller from what i've heard, may want to check that?
Also, something doesn't jive with "mild cam" and 6" of idle vacuum.
Also, something doesn't jive with "mild cam" and 6" of idle vacuum.
Maybe he has a different definition of "mild". LOL
412 Stroker
Well-Known Member
Pretty much ANY dual plane manifold would be better than a torker, for a street car, IMO
torkers do seem to run better on BB than they do on SB...I had a torker I on my 360 and was not impressed, got $35.00 for it on ebag...
torkers do seem to run better on BB than they do on SB...I had a torker I on my 360 and was not impressed, got $35.00 for it on ebag...
Ok, not so mild!! Haha!!
MRL Performance
Well-Known Member
Thats a tough one. In most cases, the RPM will out perform just about anything up to 6500rpm or so. In my experience, dual plane intakes dont like real low vacuum. 6" is pretty low. If you really want better street manners, a cam change is in order. It dont know if your going to gain a whole lot by switching the intake, its a tough call.
If you do switch them, please keep us in the loop, as this is good info many could benefit from.
If you do switch them, please keep us in the loop, as this is good info many could benefit from.
Got a video of it running.
Rice Nuker
Let the Coal Roll!
RPM.
What do you like to do with the car?
Street driving? Hot rodding?
You dont drag race it, but it sounds like a drag race engine and toque converter in the car.
I have seen race vehicles that "feel" like shi* cruising around on the street because of very low gears, loose converter, radical cam, monster heads, big headers and loose front suspension. When they stage and let it go, they run like a scalded banshee. Then you go to take a curve and almost die. Point being, set your car up for what it will be doing most.
Big cam and converter slush probably contributes to street driving feeling sluggish like a dog.
With a big cam, reckon you can't get a way with a tighter converter.
What are your cam specs? Rocker ratio? What was it degreed in at?
What heads and what done to them?
What do you mean that your torque converter "sucks"? I have a converter "sucks" story:
I swapped in a 2500 rpm hughes converter in my perfectly running stock 5.4L f-150 which already had headers and better exhaust.
That "stall" converter was a terrible mistake. Truck was a dog after that. Slushy.
Granted it was a stock vehicle but that converter took away what little torque the motor had. It wasnt the converter, it was the fact that I put a street-strip converter into a street only stock vehicle. In otherwords, simply wrong application, poor "balance" of components.
If your cam is a 3500 - 7000 rpm piece, I agree, best thing to do is put in a cam that follows your driving needs and your typical rpm range.
Sounds like with 6" vacuum at 850 that your cam is pretty high rpm oriented or something else is whacked out.
Vacuum advance will give you better street feel and part throttle torque when hooked to manifold vacuum (when calibrated to work properly with your centrifugal advance curve). Of course with your vacuum readings, it might not even work.
RPM is pretty great for moderate engines I think.
What do you like to do with the car?
Street driving? Hot rodding?
You dont drag race it, but it sounds like a drag race engine and toque converter in the car.
I have seen race vehicles that "feel" like shi* cruising around on the street because of very low gears, loose converter, radical cam, monster heads, big headers and loose front suspension. When they stage and let it go, they run like a scalded banshee. Then you go to take a curve and almost die. Point being, set your car up for what it will be doing most.
Big cam and converter slush probably contributes to street driving feeling sluggish like a dog.
With a big cam, reckon you can't get a way with a tighter converter.
What are your cam specs? Rocker ratio? What was it degreed in at?
What heads and what done to them?
What do you mean that your torque converter "sucks"? I have a converter "sucks" story:
I swapped in a 2500 rpm hughes converter in my perfectly running stock 5.4L f-150 which already had headers and better exhaust.
That "stall" converter was a terrible mistake. Truck was a dog after that. Slushy.
Granted it was a stock vehicle but that converter took away what little torque the motor had. It wasnt the converter, it was the fact that I put a street-strip converter into a street only stock vehicle. In otherwords, simply wrong application, poor "balance" of components.
If your cam is a 3500 - 7000 rpm piece, I agree, best thing to do is put in a cam that follows your driving needs and your typical rpm range.
Sounds like with 6" vacuum at 850 that your cam is pretty high rpm oriented or something else is whacked out.
Vacuum advance will give you better street feel and part throttle torque when hooked to manifold vacuum (when calibrated to work properly with your centrifugal advance curve). Of course with your vacuum readings, it might not even work.
RPM is pretty great for moderate engines I think.
The old original Torker 383 did very well against the RPM however in the Hot Rod Mag intake shootout on a big block. It surprised hell outta them.
Read it for yourself. http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0712_mopar_intake_manifold_comparo/viewall.html
Read it for yourself. http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0712_mopar_intake_manifold_comparo/viewall.html
Look how close the numbers are. Considering you can get the Torker 383 used for on the cheap....I know which one I would buy. Oh wait, I already have one. lol
Edelbrock Torker 383
This one was the shocker. Even the Edelbrock catalog states, "Great for street high- performance engines operating between 2,500 and 6,500 where low-end torque is not a requirement." We, too, would have presumed that the low-rise, single-plane Torker would have given up lots of low end to the dual-plane intakes. In fact, it only stole a little power down low-like 5-12 lb-ft between 2,900 and 4,000 rpm-and then gave it back up top, making gains of the same 5-13 lb-ft. The average numbers make the Torker look better than the RPM, but in fact they split at 4,000 rpm: The RPM is a bit better down low and the Torker is a bit better up top. And the Torker has a lower overall height! The 383 version is PN 3010 and the Torker II for 440s is PN 5091. Note that our used intake had the flanges hacked for lightening, but performance should not have been altered.
Price: The unpolished Torker 383 is currently $235.95 at Summit Racing.
Manifold height: front 351/48, rear 411/42Peak torque: 456 lb-ft @ 4,100Peak horsepower: 457 hp @ 5,900Power at 3,000 rpm: 395 lb-ft, 225 hpPower at 5,000 rpm: 449 lb-ft, 427 hpAverage 2,500-4,500: 423 lb-ft, 286 hpAverage 4,500-6,000: 435 lb-ft, 433 hpAverage 2,500-6,000: 427 lb-ft, 348 hp
Edelbrock Performer RPM
We always say you can't go wrong with a Performer RPM high-rise dual-plane for street/strip engines under 6,500 rpm, and this proves it again. It gives up a little bit of low end compared to low-rise dual-planes but makes up for it on top; it gives up a little top end to single-planes but makes up for it on the bottom. Also, the RPM gives room to grow-we expect that it will look even better once we put good heads on this engine. There doesn't seem to be a hood-clearance problem with the RPM on the Mopars we've seen, so there's no reason not to pick one unless you have a big stroker or a really hairy cam. Versions are also available for 440s (PN 7193).
Price: The satin manifold is $219.95 from Summit Racing; a polished version (PN 71861) is $389.95.
Manifold height: front 411/42, rear 511/42Peak torque: 457 lb-ft @ 4,000Peak horsepower: 451 hp @ 5,900Power at 3,000 rpm: 408 lb-ft, 233 hpPower at 5,000 rpm: 442 lb-ft, 421 hpAverage 2,500-4,500: 424 lb-ft, 287 hpAverage 4,500-6,000: 428 lb-ft, 426 hpAverage 2,500-6,000: 425 lb-ft, 346 hp
Edelbrock Torker 383
This one was the shocker. Even the Edelbrock catalog states, "Great for street high- performance engines operating between 2,500 and 6,500 where low-end torque is not a requirement." We, too, would have presumed that the low-rise, single-plane Torker would have given up lots of low end to the dual-plane intakes. In fact, it only stole a little power down low-like 5-12 lb-ft between 2,900 and 4,000 rpm-and then gave it back up top, making gains of the same 5-13 lb-ft. The average numbers make the Torker look better than the RPM, but in fact they split at 4,000 rpm: The RPM is a bit better down low and the Torker is a bit better up top. And the Torker has a lower overall height! The 383 version is PN 3010 and the Torker II for 440s is PN 5091. Note that our used intake had the flanges hacked for lightening, but performance should not have been altered.
Price: The unpolished Torker 383 is currently $235.95 at Summit Racing.
Manifold height: front 351/48, rear 411/42Peak torque: 456 lb-ft @ 4,100Peak horsepower: 457 hp @ 5,900Power at 3,000 rpm: 395 lb-ft, 225 hpPower at 5,000 rpm: 449 lb-ft, 427 hpAverage 2,500-4,500: 423 lb-ft, 286 hpAverage 4,500-6,000: 435 lb-ft, 433 hpAverage 2,500-6,000: 427 lb-ft, 348 hp
Edelbrock Performer RPM
We always say you can't go wrong with a Performer RPM high-rise dual-plane for street/strip engines under 6,500 rpm, and this proves it again. It gives up a little bit of low end compared to low-rise dual-planes but makes up for it on top; it gives up a little top end to single-planes but makes up for it on the bottom. Also, the RPM gives room to grow-we expect that it will look even better once we put good heads on this engine. There doesn't seem to be a hood-clearance problem with the RPM on the Mopars we've seen, so there's no reason not to pick one unless you have a big stroker or a really hairy cam. Versions are also available for 440s (PN 7193).
Price: The satin manifold is $219.95 from Summit Racing; a polished version (PN 71861) is $389.95.
Manifold height: front 411/42, rear 511/42Peak torque: 457 lb-ft @ 4,000Peak horsepower: 451 hp @ 5,900Power at 3,000 rpm: 408 lb-ft, 233 hpPower at 5,000 rpm: 442 lb-ft, 421 hpAverage 2,500-4,500: 424 lb-ft, 287 hpAverage 4,500-6,000: 428 lb-ft, 426 hpAverage 2,500-6,000: 425 lb-ft, 346 hp
txstang84
Well-Known Member
Interesting...I've seen a few of the torker intakes on eBay lately...
Doosterfy
Well-Known Member
Too bad you won't take it to the track and get some numbers to see what the difference (if any) is. I just bought a Torker II to go on my 440 and I'm going to watch Ebay for a used RPM intake because I want to try them both. One thing I have noticed is the Torker II is the intake most people pass off as not good. It seems like when it comes to single plane intakes, most will go for something more race oriented (tall and big) which deffinately hurt low end. I've had experience with Torker IIs on Pontiacs and small block Chevies and I really liked it because it fit under the flat hood and made good power. IDK what it will do on a 440 but I'll find out.
The 440 Torker II is a big piece of poo-poo. Here is living proof.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,77977.0.html
It wouldn't hold 600 lb/ft of torque below 3500 rpm and only managed 641.6 hp @ 5800 rpm.
USELESS JUNK!
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,77977.0.html
It wouldn't hold 600 lb/ft of torque below 3500 rpm and only managed 641.6 hp @ 5800 rpm.
USELESS JUNK!
OldmanRick
Well-Known Member
I'm sure some will not realize that there is sarcasm in this post......lol
I went through this "big cam,big intake plenum,no response" before.I installed some Rhoads lifters,vacuum went from 5" vacuum to 11. Second,are you able to borrow a Holley double pumper?A 75 would be the primo, but 650 to 800 will work.Last,what do you have for ignition? A multi spark box does wonders for idle to 3000 drivability and torque. If just one part,I would do an airgap.Just throwing more ideas on the fire,good luck.
You have a 440 dart with 4.10s and you have no intention of EVER racing it? I can't relate to that. Anyways, if your vacuum is really as low as you say, then your cam is either pretty radical or you have other problems. Switch intakes, switch to a much milder cam, throw in a factory hi stall and some 3.23 gears. You will be much happier and will probably gain 3 or 4 mpg.
By no means am I not satisfied with the Torker 2. I was just looking for a tad better low end response and figured the Performer RPM would help the issue. I am using an MSD box, by the way. The Hughes convertor I put in is way too tight!!! Even though it has an advertised 3000 stall, I'm locked in at 1200 RPM's!!! That in itself is a big problem.
I didn't build the engine, so I don't know the cam specs. I wish I did. Sure, I can get 12" of vacuum......at a 1250rpm idle speed!! At 850-900rpm, the best I get is 6". Power valve is a 3.5.
Anyway, if it's not worth any seat of the pants gains, I'd just assume leave the Torker on there and return the Performer to Summit. I'm getting the feeling I should leave it alone.
I didn't build the engine, so I don't know the cam specs. I wish I did. Sure, I can get 12" of vacuum......at a 1250rpm idle speed!! At 850-900rpm, the best I get is 6". Power valve is a 3.5.
Anyway, if it's not worth any seat of the pants gains, I'd just assume leave the Torker on there and return the Performer to Summit. I'm getting the feeling I should leave it alone.
OldmanRick
Well-Known Member
It's like everything else. If the Torker II is used in an application where all the other parts match it, it will be a good performer.
when you bumped up the initial did you readjust your idle mix screws for best lean vacuum at idle?
6" of vacuum... if it will idle at 850 rpm, my guess you have vac leak somewhere. A cam I'd expect to have that vacuum profile would have a hard time idling there.
Have you checked the intake to head sealing surface? Plugged off everything connected to the carb to isolate it?
Maybe the pushrods are a smidge too long. Don't know but it acts funny that's for sure.
6" of vacuum... if it will idle at 850 rpm, my guess you have vac leak somewhere. A cam I'd expect to have that vacuum profile would have a hard time idling there.
Have you checked the intake to head sealing surface? Plugged off everything connected to the carb to isolate it?
Maybe the pushrods are a smidge too long. Don't know but it acts funny that's for sure.
RPM drop when you go from P to in gear? 850 to what RPM?
Drops maybe 50-75 rpm or so.
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