Transmission service - Teach an old dawg new tricks!

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7milesout

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Guys - Most of the vehicles I have owned have had manual transmissions. And never had any issues from them. What auto transmissions I have had, have never had any issues with them either. Only a 2006 Honda Oddity did I ever do transmission service to, because Honda's history on those transmissions was bad. I flushed the trans several times and dug deep to get to the filter a few times through the course of ownership, a filter that the Honda service monkeys said did not exist. Yet it did. Forums are very powerful. 175k miles on that transmission and no problems.

Point being, I'm capable, within the limitation of my tools and garage (no lift).

But if a person has not experienced something, they just don't know. That's me in this case. I've NEVER done anything to a transmission like what's in the Scamp (727). The transmission seems fine, works well, no issue. But it has had no service over the past 15+ years, but has been hardly driven either. So as to NOT neglect it, I want to begin the learning process on the ole 727.

What I want to do (first) is just do a service drain and top off. That should replace maybe 50% of the transmission fluid (or more maybe) with new. I've been under the car a number of times and luckily someone in the vehicle's past tapped the pan and added a drain.

My questions are:
  • About how much fluid should I expect to drain off?
  • What is the appropriate trans fluid to go back with? Don't need anything fancy, just what is adequate back in the day that is equivalent to that now.
  • On the Oddity, I connected a clear hose to the dipstick tube and hose clamped it (just tight enough not to leak) and refilled the trans that way. Is that the way to fill the trans on the 727?
Thanks guys.


7milesout
 
If you are going to change the fluid. That's a good time to go ahead and change the filter, and gasket. First, does the fluid look dark, and does it smell burnt. If so, you might have more issues. Changing the filter is easy. Unbolt the pan. Lower it carefully, even after draining, it may still have fluid. Look for particles in the pan. A little isn't bad. Then looking at the trans with the pan off, there's the filter. 3 screws, and it's off. Put new filter on, make sure the trans pan is flat around the bolt holes. They can be tapped down with a hammer. I then glue the new gasket to the panwith 3m weatherstrip adhesive, and re install. I like type F fluid. Remember to check fluid level, idling in Neutral. It won't read correctly in park.
 
furyus2 said:
If you are going to change the fluid. That's a good time to go ahead and change the filter, and gasket. First, does the fluid look dark, and does it smell burnt. If so, you might have more issues. Changing the filter is easy. Unbolt the pan. Lower it carefully, even after draining, it may still have fluid. Look for particles in the pan. A little isn't bad. Then looking at the trans with the pan off, there's the filter. 3 screws, and it's off. Put new filter on, make sure the trans pan is flat around the bolt holes. They can be tapped down with a hammer. I then glue the new gasket to the panwith 3m weatherstrip adhesive, and re install. I like type F fluid. Remember to check fluid level, idling in Neutral. It won't read correctly in park.
Click to expand...
This 100% correct but I myself would never but type F fluid in a Mopar transmission.
 
By the way your Scamp most likely has a 904. The 727 never came in that car from the factory. With that it doesn't mean someone didn't change it out.
 
7milesout said:
Guys - Most of the vehicles I have owned have had manual transmissions. And never had any issues from them. What auto transmissions I have had, have never had any issues with them either. Only a 2006 Honda Oddity did I ever do transmission service to, because Honda's history on those transmissions was bad. I flushed the trans several times and dug deep to get to the filter a few times through the course of ownership, a filter that the Honda service monkeys said did not exist. Yet it did. Forums are very powerful. 175k miles on that transmission and no problems.

Point being, I'm capable, within the limitation of my tools and garage (no lift).

But if a person has not experienced something, they just don't know. That's me in this case. I've NEVER done anything to a transmission like what's in the Scamp (727). The transmission seems fine, works well, no issue. But it has had no service over the past 15+ years, but has been hardly driven either. So as to NOT neglect it, I want to begin the learning process on the ole 727.

What I want to do (first) is just do a service drain and top off. That should replace maybe 50% of the transmission fluid (or more maybe) with new. I've been under the car a number of times and luckily someone in the vehicle's past tapped the pan and added a drain.

My questions are:
  • About how much fluid should I expect to drain off?
  • What is the appropriate trans fluid to go back with? Don't need anything fancy, just what is adequate back in the day that is equivalent to that now.
  • On the Oddity, I connected a clear hose to the dipstick tube and hose clamped it (just tight enough not to leak) and refilled the trans that way. Is that the way to fill the trans on the 727?
Thanks guys.


7milesout
Click to expand...


You could do yourself a huge favor and get the 42RH pan gasket that is rubber covered steel and reusable.
At the dealership ask for the gasket for a 1996 Durango with the 42RH trans.
You'll love that gasket and never go back.
 
TrailBeast said:
You could do yourself a huge favor and get the 42RH pan gasket that is rubber covered steel and reusable.
At the dealership ask for the gasket for a 1996 Durango with the 42RH trans.
You'll love that gasket and never go back.
Click to expand...

I agree but I don't think they make this gasket any longer. You might find a dealer that has old stock. But I know we don't stock them any longer. They have even dropped them for the 42TE and 42LE. Too bad, they worked great.
 
Hellrats said:
I agree but I don't think they make this gasket any longer. You might find a dealer that has old stock. But I know we don't stock them any longer. They have even dropped them for the 42TE and 42LE. Too bad, they worked great.
Click to expand...

That sucks, and also figures.
I got mine from a member on here that bought a case of them.
 
Yea it
TrailBeast said:
That sucks, and also figures.
I got mine from a member on here that bought a case of them.
Click to expand...
Yea it does. They worked great. I'm sure aftermarket makes something like that. But here at the dealership they have drop a lot of older P/Ns off.
 
My suggestion would be to put a flat disc magnet in the corner of the pan to pickup any ferrous metal particles while you have the pan off.
 
The car DOES have a 727 in it. The previous owner and I swapped the engine and trans back in about 1996.

The first iteration, I'm only going to drain and refill. I checked the trans level, before driving it, the fluid looked nice and healthy believe it or not. And it does shift nice and acts normal. So, just service at this time. I'll do the filter next time, and figure out the gasket.

I hate to be a stickler, but I didn't see any info inline with my original questions. So here they are again. Thanks!

7milesout said:
My questions are:
  • About how much fluid should I expect to drain off?
  • What is the appropriate trans fluid to go back with? Don't need anything fancy, just what is adequate back in the day that is equivalent to that now.
  • On the Oddity, I connected a clear hose to the dipstick tube and hose clamped it (just tight enough not to leak) and refilled the trans that way. Is that the way to fill the trans on the 727?
Thanks guys.


7milesout
Click to expand...
 
OK, I don't want to come off as an *** but if you changed the engine and transmission out I would think you already know how to check the fluid. If there is no problem with how it is operating then just get a clean drain pan, drain the amount of fluid you can get out and measure it. Then put that much back in. If your not changing the filter or checking the bands it's just a drain and fill. What ever you take out... put back it.
 
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Hellrats - I don't want to come off as an *** either. But, I did not ask how to check the fluid. I did not ask how to drain it. I did not ask about measuring or how to measure the amount that drains. I did not ask about how to know how much to put back in. Yet this is the information I read from your reply.
 
7milesout said:
My questions are:
  • About how much fluid should I expect to drain off?
  • What is the appropriate trans fluid to go back with? Don't need anything fancy, just what is adequate back in the day that is equivalent to that now.
  • On the Oddity, I connected a clear hose to the dipstick tube and hose clamped it (just tight enough not to leak) and refilled the trans that way. Is that the way to fill the trans on the 727?
Click to expand...
Answer to question 1: About 1 gallon maybe a little more
Answer to question 2: Mopar Part number 68218057AB (ATF +4) fluid
Answer to question 3: I just use a funnel and put the fluid in through the dipstick tube
 
7milesout said:
Hellrats - I don't want to come off as an *** either. But, I did not ask how to check the fluid. I did not ask how to drain it. I did not ask about measuring or how to measure the amount that drains. I did not ask about how to know how much to put back in. Yet this is the information I read from your reply.
Click to expand...
And check it hot idling in neutral. Be safe and block the wheels or use the e-brake if it works.
 
Hellrats said:
Answer to question 1: About 1 gallon maybe a little more
Answer to question 2: Mopar Part number 68218057AB (ATF +4) fluid
Answer to question 3: I just use a funnel and put the fluid in through the dipstick tube
Click to expand...

Perfect. That fluid can be purchased on Amazon, and I have the fill tube set up ready to go. I use a smaller funnel just rammed down into (I think it's) a 3/8ths inch clear tube, which I run down to & connect to the dipstick tube.

Thanks!

And I will check the fluid level as noted. The park brake works just fine. It was the park brake I used to move it around until I replaced the master cylinder.


7milesout
 
I finally got around to doing this. But I went ahead and went all the way. Some of the things I noticed and how I went about it.

  • The pan already has a drain, so I opened it and went and did other things.
  • Came back a couple days later and tried like hell to get to the outer band adjuster. No amount of voodoo would allow wrench access. I'm going to have to take the lines and shifter linkages off to access it. I have a friend that will let me use his lift. I just didn't have enough room from the garage floor.
  • I want to say that every one of the 14 drain pain bolts had about 1 inch-lb of force on them. I could almost back them off with my fingers. The pan leaked, but not real bad. But it's no wonder.
  • Then I removed all the bolts on one side, and used the other side bolts to slowly let one side of the pan down. Went off without a hitch, no spillage.
  • What's funny is, because there was a drip of ATF on the tip of each screw holding the filter on, I couldn't see the phillip's shape. And was thinking the filter just sort of popped into place. I didn't tug on the filter long before I figured it out and wiped off the screw ends and removed them.
  • I did adjust the band on the inside. 72 inch-lbs, then 2 turns out.
  • I cleaned out the inside of the pan. It had one tiny piece of what looked like gasket, and one small area of some wear material. But really was impressively clean. The drained fluid all looked good and healthy.
  • Spent a good long time cleaning the pan gasket surface. The trans gasket surface was not an issue, I just wiped it clean.
  • Put on a new gasket and torqued down all the bolts to 150 inch-lbs.
  • Added 4 quarts and cranked it up. I let it idle and warm up.
  • On the stick it looked like it was twice as far down as the bottom of the safe zone. And the safe zone is 1 pint's worth (as you guys know). So I poured another quart in and it was perfect to the top of the safe zone. So 5 quarts for a drain, with filter change.
  • I'll double check the level again after another cycle warming / driving. It's just sitting in the garage right now on floor dollies as tonight I'm going to switch the AFR sensor to the left bank.
All went well, except for the outside (kickdown?) band adjuster. The lack of OD drives me nuts and I've been considering what to do about it. Considering the robustness of the 727, and this one seems a prime example, it would be a shame to replace it. Which sways me down the Gear Vendors path, because those units are supposed to be robust as well. The only disadvantage I can see with the GV is the cost.


7milesout
 
Depending on the year, you might have a drain plug for the torque converter also. I have a double flex ratchet wrench that I use to loosen the lock nut for the kickdown band adjustment. Still not easy but doable.
 
Sterling - I'm going to look into those wrenches. However, the difficulty of doing this from under the car remains. You probably know the pain. My buddy is willing to let me use his lift. He's a mechanic so he'll have a bunch of tools too. Since this is quite easy (meaning, if you can get a wrench on these parts), I'm going to wait and do it at his shop.

Last couple notes:
  • I meant to add, I just stuck my funnel down in the dipstick tube, as mentioned up above, to fill. The only other transmission I ever did anything to, had a really skinny dipstick tube. I had to attach a clear flexible tube to it, with a hose clamp. And then I jammed the funnel into the top of the clear flexible tube. It was nice that I could just put the funnel directly into the 727's dipstick tube.
  • I backed the car out last night, let it warm up, placed it into each gear, then checked the fluid again. It took another 12 oz or so to put it to the top of the indicated zone. Then I drove the car, and drove it a bit holding in 1 and 2. When I got home I checked it again and it looked like it was about 12 oz over! That's annoying. So tonight I'm going to crack open the drain and drain some back out. All checks done in N, idling, engine warm. Will check only do after driving from now on.

7milesout
 
You could have loosened the valve body bolts two turns and the converter would have drained a little below the halfway mark. Just remember to put a gallon in the pan and start it in neutral. Get it full asap because if your pump sucks air your trans isn't lubricating bushings and thrust washers.
 
I went in tonight to drain some out, and now I can't get it to stop dripping. I can't figure anyway around just draining the whole damn thing, pulling the pan off again, and figuring it out.

It's some big *** bolt threaded into the pan, with a small *** bolt threaded into the big *** bolt. I thought I was turning just the small *** bolt. But the small *** bolt was turning the big *** bolt and I couldn't see well enough up under to tell, at first. I suspect the big *** bolt had some thread sealant on it and I broke that sealant loose when (trying to) backing off the small *** bolt, but actually loosening the big *** bolt. Very frustrated at the moment. The whole day has been frustrating.

I've got it slowed down to about 1 drip every 6 seconds. 10 drips a minute, 600 drips an hour. Does anyone have any suggestions to shore this up and not have to re-drop the pan again?
 
7milesout said:
Will most definitely look into that. I was thinking of buying a new pan, but want a drain. Thanks!
Click to expand...

no help here, but one of the posters said he`d never use type F fluid, I ran it for 14 yrs in a hemi super stock 727 trans., and have used it every 727 that I `ve ever owned. Have it in the currant 440/505 / 727 now , no problems ! Used to be recommended by B-M racing trans. , and even ok`d by Tom Hoover in a drag seminar many yrs, ago .
Tom Hoover was the god father of the 426 hemi, by the way ! I think he knew his ---- !!
 
CudaFactHackJob - I bought that same trans pan. It is a nice looking piece. I installed it last night, 5 more quarts of fluid. I drove the Scampulator in to work today and checked the level in the parking lot (after holding it in L1 and L2 some). 5 quarts put it about halfway into the safe zone. It looks like to bring it to the top of the safe zone should be about another 1/4 quart (or 1/2 pint).

Thanks guys, for all your GREAT support!


7milesout
 
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