1qwikScamp
Well-Known Member
the hotchkis arms are super nice and really strong as are the just suspensions little pricey but you get what you pay for
If they are using chrome moly tubing they shouldn't be using a mig welder anyway. Tig weld only on moly tube.
This is why I tell people not to waste their money on this crap. With your front wheel and tire combo tube control arms were pointless to begin with.
Whether they are pointless or not is nowhere near the real issue. If a company offers parts for the front end of our street cars, they damn well better be SAFE. We are free to build our cars however we like, for more performance, for more safety, or even just for the "coolness" factor. Even if these parts are cheaper, they still HAVE TO BE SAFE. If it was me, I would already be talking to lawyers.
I'm glad you and your grand youngin are ok.
If you are determined to use tubular upper control arms find some that are actually designed so that they are specific to the car. Meaning that they actually fit where you run your two bolts thru at the mounting point on the back side.So many of these tubulars are not as wide as the stock units so you have to use washers to make up the difference.Mopar 340 dave said he thought at least one of the brands were the same width as the stock ones.Maybe he will chime in.I just got a new disc break conversion kit yesterday from a company and when I opened it up to my horror were a set of Cap tubular UCA's.They were supposed to be the stamped UCA's like the OEM ones. When I called the company they said the correct ones were on back order and they were substituting these. I told them I didnt want them and they promptly gave me a UPS return authorization number to ship them back and they are going to give me my money back for the Cap product. How ironic, I have been following this story all week and chose to go with the stamped UCA's because of it, and when I finally get my breaks I was mortified to find these frigin things instead. Now I need to decide what I want to do for UCA's.
CAP also sells their arms with heim joints, so that might account for the pivot difference. I'd try to find out where he got them.
As far as MIG vs TIG welded, it depends on the weld. On average I'd say TIG welds are smaller, cleaner, more uniform welds. But a good MIG weld can look much better than a bad TIG weld.
Post up some pictures of the arms, we can probably figure out which one's you have.
a gusset isn't needed. the welds were bad on those arms. the way the arms broke right down the weld tells you it wasn't welded properly. the gusset would have broken and done nothing too if welded like those arms that are pictured in the original post.
I'm not saying a gusset would have saved those particular examples. What i am saying is that it would be general good engineering practice, considering the large loads to use a gusset -otherwise, why would have most other more respected brands have done it? If all the welds are done properly, gussetting can only make them stronger and stiffer. I know i'm not alone in thinking this.
I just bought a RMS set to do a coil-over suspension. Bill changed the angle where the arms come into the BJ cup. The older style had a large loop, the newer look more like the Magnum Force ones.
I'm guessing here; but I believe the change was driven by tire/arm interference on large/wide front tires that required some shimming to correct. I think the new design cures this issue. RMS could answer for sure.
I just bought a RMS set to do a coil-over suspension. Bill changed the angle where the arms come into the BJ cup. The older style had a large loop, the newer look more like the Magnum Force ones.
I'm guessing here; but I believe the change was driven by tire/arm interference on large/wide front tires that required some shimming to correct. I think the new design cures this issue. RMS could answer for sure.
still no gusset though right?
72bluNblu - here are a few photos of my tube UCA's. These were bought over 6 years ago, i bought them a few years ago from the guy, but although he told me the brand, i can't remember. CAP does NOT sound familiar though, but these do look like ones in the original post. I would like to think that if these were manufactured over 6 years ago, then the incompetent welder (responsible for the failed ones) might not have done these ! Its not the CAP products in general that are at fault, its the poor welds turned out on some of them by some idiot who shouldn't be working there. These ones here have the Hiem joints, and i have also posted some closeups of the welds. Can you or anyone ID the brand or see if the welds look MIG or TIG? Someone on this forum said that gussetting (a la Magnum Force, Hotchkiss and Firm Feel) is not necessary. I disagree. You only have to look at the small amount of material on these welds and know of the huge loads that they have to carry, to see that some sort of gussetting would be adviseable. Its liek a road bridge - most well designed bridges could easily perform well 98% of the time with 25% of their support material removed -but its that freak strong storm combined with a load of heavy trucks that will bring it down, so the engineer's have to allow for this. So too the UCA - they should be able to withstand radial and side loads that would not be experienced in normal driving.
72bluNblu - here are a few photos of my tube UCA's. These were bought over 6 years ago, i bought them a few years ago from the guy, but although he told me the brand, i can't remember. CAP does NOT sound familiar though, but these do look like ones in the original post. I would like to think that if these were manufactured over 6 years ago, then the incompetent welder (responsible for the failed ones) might not have done these ! Its not the CAP products in general that are at fault, its the poor welds turned out on some of them by some idiot who shouldn't be working there. These ones here have the Hiem joints, and i have also posted some closeups of the welds. Can you or anyone ID the brand or see if the welds look MIG or TIG? Someone on this forum said that gussetting (a la Magnum Force, Hotchkiss and Firm Feel) is not necessary. I disagree. You only have to look at the small amount of material on these welds and know of the huge loads that they have to carry, to see that some sort of gussetting would be adviseable. Its liek a road bridge - most well designed bridges could easily perform well 98% of the time with 25% of their support material removed -but its that freak strong storm combined with a load of heavy trucks that will bring it down, so the engineer's have to allow for this. So too the UCA - they should be able to withstand radial and side loads that would not be experienced in normal driving.