Turning torque for engine

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High turning torque creating an overheat condition would have let you know already, it would have wiped the bearings and started knocking. I hate to say it, but I would go back through the cooling system and list every part. Any other signs it is hot other than the gauge?
 
@Slappy told us in the 1st post that he has checked all cooling system stuff, but I agree with all the posts here, there's still something going on.
I think an engine would kill itself before any hard-to-turn issues caused overheating.
Be happy, Slappy, (See what I did there?) engine issues are a much bigger problem than cooling system issues, of course. (Unless it's Hard-Blok, or something like that.)
Is there a thread you could link that shows us what you've tried?
 
Here is what I have. I have a March pulley system style track set up. It is a serpentine belt set up. I used the water pump that came with the pulley set.I have tried 6 and 8 blade pumps . Also tried the cage type impeller where it is a closed type like a wheel . I’ve routed the belt the correct way that they say to route the belt. I wish I would’ve never bought the system honestly. But the problem is it’s too late now. I have air conditioning in the car. A vintage air set up. It works properly. The fans come on when the AC pressure gets high enough. I have no problem with that. I can drive the car for about 20 minutes and the heat will continue to build in the engine . It will get all the way into the 220s and I shut it down. The fans are running the entire time. I have a Holley sniper set up . I have tried different fans . I believe these are 3200 cfm each but not positive. I’ve tried everything from no thermostat to 160, 180,195 . All parts were brand new . I’ve done 3 head gasket tests . All negative . Engine has edelbrock heads . New out of the box. Sorry to be a dead horse. But I am running out of options other than to tear this motor down.
 
I’m willing to pay someone to diagnose and fix this issue . I will travel for the right person. I have had it at a couple of shops around here. They’re really not into old-school stuff especially stuff that has been modified.
 
What pistons are in it?
If KB107s, the catalog numbers for skirt clearance and ring-gap factor, IMO are too tight.
If you test the turning torque, do it cold AND hot. If the pistons swell up or the rings get to butting, it will only show up on a hot engine.
Just So you know;
I also have a bored out 360 with Edelbrock heads, and KB 107s. The Compression ratio is currently 10.95 but has run to 11.3, with no problems.
Like you, I had an incurable overheat.
I finally took the engine apart, and loosened her up.
Going from memory;
the skirt clearance was set to around .0035/.0040 and the gaps to
~.034 top, ~.028 second, and oil IDK. After warm up, the Thermostatic Clutch keeps her dead on 205>207, never less nor more, on a 195stat.

Good luck to you as I remember how frustrating that summer was.
 
TrailBeast said:
Electric in Florida?
No wonder it overheats.
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My 408 avatar car is street driven and does not overheat with its 2 electric puller fans and Champion alum radiator. And I live about 90 min north of him in Florida. BUT...I do not have AC.

So it is possible to make this setup work (at least w/o AC). We're all going to learn something when this gets figured out!!

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Ok, found your other post and went through it. I saw that you thought you had a spring in the lower hose, the. determine did you didn’t. But I couldn’t find where you said you had put one in. Have you? My suggestion is, divide and conquers. Is it incorrect coolant flow or air flow or abnormal heat. Let’s eliminate air flow. Remove the schrouds and electric fans. Put one of those big electric squirrel cage fans on high right in front of the radiator and run the the car. You KNOW that will put out enough airflow. If the car doesn’t overheat. You have an airflow issue. If it still overheats. We move on to coolant flow. You can have too much or too little. Something I couldn’t find you answer to. Which freeze plug and did you look in the hole? Could this block have a short fill of hard block? You could remove the block drain and see If Water comes out, you may need to poke around in the hole to clear the casting sand. If after probing it you can’t get the hole clear. It might be half filled. I couldn’t find anything about the history of the block.
 
dusterbing the peace said:
Just want to clarify, when you say “fully assembled belt on all accessories in play”, is it just one serpentine belt?

Only reason I ask is that if this is the case, are you rotating the pump the wrong direction relative to the impeller blades?

Got a picture of the belt(s) routing? Also wondering if you have one really long v-belt going around multiple things and it’s just slipping on the water pump pulley and not driving it fast enough because it’s not making enough contact.

Last thought would be casting sand or sediment from hard water inside the block, or as another asked, hard block.

Hope you find your issue!!!
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As dusterbing mentions above, are you SURE the water pump is turning the correct direction? We haven't seen a shot of the accessory drive system yet but some serpentine systems may require a reverse direction water pump. Had to ask!!
 
Sterling said:
Turning torque will be different, depending on if the spark plugs are installed, and if the valve train is installed. More compression and more valve spring pressure will increase the turning torque. I have assembled engines that would turn over at 12 inch lbs, until the spark plugs and push rods were installed. So I would think that if you can turn the engine over in the car with a 1/2” ratchet, you should be ok
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12 inch pounds = 1 foot pound. That ain't happenin with an V8.
 
In the other post, there is a diagram of the kit. It shows the pump turning clockwise. Coolant flow, as an example, my motor makes more heat than yours. I run the March underdrive crank pulley and a stock A/C water pump pulley, through a stock 340 radiator. They are pretty close to 1:1. So I would be pretty confident if your crank and water pump were close to 1:1. IIRC the March “performance” pulley kits are under driven. My crank pulley is between 5-6”. If your pulleys are the same size or close. You should be in the window on coolant flow. This is an auto right? Check the trans fluid, is it burnt?
 
Slappy said:
I’m willing to pay someone to diagnose and fix this issue . I will travel for the right person. I have had it at a couple of shops around here. They’re really not into old-school stuff especially stuff that has been modified.
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I'd be happy to look at it. I'm pretty confident I could find the issue. You've been on my property before and you know how secluded it is so no one would mess with it. My only problem is, although I do have a shop, I don't have room for the car inside.
 
So, I searched “installed Holley sniper and now the car runs hot” there is a post on For B Bodies Only with someone had that issue. Johnny Mac posted and seemed to know the system well. You might reach out to him. He’s on here. I just read a bit of it, but the system might be trying to adjust timing, when you don’t have the distributor setup for it to adjust timing. Which can make it run lean. Can you look at the AFR graphs?
 
furrystump said:
So, I searched “installed Holley sniper and now the car runs hot” there is a post on For B Bodies Only with someone had that issue. Johnny Mac posted and seemed to know the system well. You might reach out to him. He’s on here. I just read a bit of it, but the system might be trying to adjust timing, when you don’t have the distributor setup for it to adjust timing. Which can make it run lean. Can you look at the AFR graphs?
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Good find . I am not using the timing adjustment for sniper. I am using a fixed timing. The AFR graphs are good. This was getting hot with the carburetor as well. That’s why I went to fuel injection with an O2 sensor. It really woke the car up. I just have this hot issue
 
furrystump said:
High turning torque creating an overheat condition would have let you know already, it would have wiped the bearings and started knocking. I hate to say it, but I would go back through the cooling system and list every part. Any other signs it is hot other than the gauge?
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I’m not sure what I could possibly do. That’s any different except go back to stock which I’m not willing to do at this point. It would cost too much money. I’m just trying to work with what I have, but I appreciate any advice.
 
A56 said:
Radiator type /size? rad cap? fan(s)? coolant type? timing? How soon does it overheat? highest temps? in traffic and around town or highway or both? Are you saying the motor is or is not in the
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A56 said:
Radiator type /size? rad cap? fan(s)? coolant type? timing? How soon does it overheat? highest temps? in traffic and around town or highway or both? Are you saying the motor is or is not in the car?
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The radiator is a three row champion radiator. The coolant system cap pressure is a fliptop type 16 pounds. I have tried lower pounds nothing has changed. Obviously it would run hotter at a lower pound. I have never let the car get over 220. I’ve shut it down every time. The engine does not even have 150 miles on it. no matter if I’m on the highway or running around town temperature just continues to climb until I have to shut it down. I have tried different CFM coolant fans, etc. nothing seems to work. I can spend the engine over with a half inch drive ratchet without really any problems. And the spark plugs are in. Any help is appreciated and I thank you.
 
Can you go into the afr graph and and add fuel, just say maybe 1 point. See if that stops the overheat. If it does, pull 1/2 point out. Still no issue? Leave it. The software is looking for a “number” the sensor may be consistent, but not exactly representative of a real number.
 
Is the radiator cap venting?

Also, run it with the cap off and see if it becomes a volcano. It may just purge more air out with a little mess and then be fine. Be careful, hot coolant hurts. After that, put the cap back on and see it it gets too hot.
 
Slappy said:
Good find . I am not using the timing adjustment for sniper. I am using a fixed timing. The AFR graphs are good. This was getting hot with the carburetor as well. That’s why I went to fuel injection with an O2 sensor. It really woke the car up. I just have this hot issue
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"Fixed timing"? Is the distributor locked out? What is your actual ignition timing advance? I'm assuming no vacuum advance either? Too little advance at idle and part throttle will cause massive heat rejection into the cooling system.

Second guy this week with issues likely related to "spitballed" ignition timing but went through the trouble and expense of converting to EFI. Using aftermarket EFI but no timing control doesn't make sense to me. Locked-out mechanical advance and no vacuum advance on a street car is overall a bad idea.
 
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Slappy said:
Good afternoon guys. You guys have helped me so much in the past. I’m hoping you can help me with this problem. I have a 72 Dodge Demon with a 360 small block engine. The engine is 10 1/2 to one compression according to the machine shop. Aluminum heads, roller, rocker, arms, etc. I’m having a problem with the car running too hot. I’ve been down this road a lot with you guys. I’m to the point where I believe it’s something internal. I can turn the motor over by hand fully assembled. Plugs, installed rocker, arms installed, etc.. I’m trying to figure out how hard it should be to turn this engine over by hand. It doesn’t seem too tight, but I’m not sure how tight it should be. The engine runs fine has no other issues other than overheating. I’ve been through all of the cooling system several times with no solution. So I’m down to something internal. I did a leak down test no head gasket problems. I also have good compression . Does anyone have a torque value on a fully assembled engine? Thanks for your help.
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Torque to turn with the plugs installed, should be 35-40'/lbs torque, maybe a little more for your compression ratio.
 
been there feel your frustration


what i done so far to help it stay cool that help


i ditch the 3 row by 22 inch champion rad and instaled there 26 inch , i intaled there 26 inch after having one under warranty because there 22 was doing nothing good

instaled the ferd cougar fan setup
that help alote

by running both fan at the low speed in town engine doesnt go over 185 even in the hottest weather

remove the thermostat instaled a restrictor and plug the bypass hose at the water pump with a 1/2 npt plug

for the water pump i try both the mopar high flow and the napa standard pump that didnt made any diference

try diferent pully didnt help either

im confident that the rad is the problem

3 row 3/4 wide never gonna cool as mutch as griffin with ther 2 row 1 inch

if i knew back than i would i buy the first and the last time a good rad like a griffin


my two cents
 
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