using the stk 4 piston caliper?

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gonzos69dart

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I'm building a street/strip 69 Dart, I want to use the stock 4 piston disc set up with rear discs as well, this is gonna be a 9 second car and am starting to wonder about stopping power, I will change out the master cylinder for sure, has anyone ventured this road before or have any thoughts?
 
Well, you're going to have sbp up front and bbp in the rear, if that's ok with you.
 
Well, you're going to have sbp up front and bbp in the rear, if that's ok with you.

^^^^^^^^^This is true^^^^^^^^^

I happen to love that 4 piston caliper. In 1973 Chrysler cheeped out again and went to the single piston caliper.

I stopped a 9.4x 2750 pound car with 4 drum brakes. I spent a bunch of time on line pressure, pad area and made sure all that drums had as much thickness as I could get. Stopped like a dream.

Would I want to do that on a circle track or road race car? Nope.

I also didn't use off the shelf brake linings either. I used some stuff a local friction house had.

I think you can do what you want with a little thought, planning and math. Master cylinder bore size, and pedal ratio is critical.
 
Sure the drums will stop the car, once. Then it starts to get bad, they just dont handle heat that well. Fade isnt just a haircut! Disk brakes are where its at, so simple yet effective and the 4 piston offered modulation, the single pot disk really gives that up. Motorcycles use 6-8 piston front brakes.
 
...for these 45 year old drum brake cars ..disc brakes should be the
first thing you do...even before a 4bbl.
 
Agree with post #3. Only fault in multi piston calipers on any vehicle is cost.
 
^^^^^^^^^This is true^^^^^^^^^

I happen to love that 4 piston caliper. In 1973 Chrysler cheeped out again and went to the single piston caliper.

I stopped a 9.4x 2750 pound car with 4 drum brakes. I spent a bunch of time on line pressure, pad area and made sure all that drums had as much thickness as I could get. Stopped like a dream.

Would I want to do that on a circle track or road race car? Nope.

I also didn't use off the shelf brake linings either. I used some stuff a local friction house had.

I think you can do what you want with a little thought, planning and math. Master cylinder bore size, and pedal ratio is critical.

What he said.
I am a big fan of those also. Mine pull me down just fine from 110 even just with 10 x2s out back; on a typical track day.
With big traction out back, you can gut the Pvalve and increase brake force out back, without getting into spinning. IMHO discs out back is......... careful now, excessive. How's that.Excessive for a streeter, and excessive for a 12 second car.For 9s IDK. But one thing I do know; if the rear gets to be too powerful in relation to the front,and the rear breaks loose, you will be spinning.Another thing I know is that 10 x 2s out back, with a gutted Pvalve, and with 15/16s WCs, and with matching brake compounds all round is not too much for the KH front set-up. Not too much for 325/50-15 DRs. Nor even for 295/50 streets. My Barracuda is a pleasure to stop.That system has saved us (my son drives it too, but he's not as wild as am I),more tham a few times. At legal speeds I like to use the adjective "incredible". For an A-body,she stops incredibly hard.And the front skid-point is very predictable and easy to manage, even with just 235/60-14 streets up front.Coopers/or BFGs no less.Having strong rears that don't lock prematurely really helps. At least that's what I have come to believe.
As an aside, I sometimes wonder if I could have a little more back there, but have never needed more. It's strictly a wonder. I wonder where the line is. Wonder has a strong pull to it....................

I must tell you tho, that I am a streeter. I rarely exceed 80/90mph. And multiple stops together are rare also. I only remember a few instances during initial testing. The car has been to the track just 3 times in 16 years and run only about 12 times. With a small cam, she went 106@ low 12's(can't recall). Later with one size bigger cam, she went 93 in the eight.So she's not particularly fast, just a hot streeter. I like to believe that with better rear suspension, and optimum gearing, she might be in the 11s.In all instances she had plenty of time to cool-down the brakes between rounds.As well,one of the tracks was an old airport runway with plenty of shut-down area.
I cannot guess as to how they will fare in a 9er.But if you already own 'em, I'd sure give them a chance to shine.
 
There's a sticky in the Brakes forum for a Mustang rotor with 4.5 pattern and machining the inner race, and the overall rotor diameter to work on the KH spindle and caliper.
I'd suggest that route with rear disks. Works for me and my setup. No issues hauling the car down quickly from speeds in excess of 120.
 
A 9 sec car sounds like "drag strip only", in which case you need stop only once. Drums are fine for that. Indeed, rear drums are fine for almost everything, rear disks just being for bling and marketing. Also, since a drag car, shouldn't matter if front and rears wheels don't interchange. I can't see anyone getting into 9 sec without wide, sticky drag tires and skinny light tires up front.
 
I guess I will have to dissent. I prefer single piston calipers in all but heavy duty applications like a truck. They are simple and effective. I have had too many bad experiences with the old Kelsey Hayes stuff. Just my personal preference.
 
Rusty has a point.The 4 piston Kelsey's also have fixed rather than floating callipers making
rotor run out critical ( .001 preferred) along with a thinner rotor to dissipate less heat.
Going to the single, pick the later 2 3/4" Piston over the earlier 2 5/8.
they will haul you down but are 4 1/2" bolt circle
pros and cons for both..i prefer the larger single piston pin style callipers.
 
Rusty has a point.The 4 piston Kelsey's also have fixed rather than floating callipers making
rotor run out critical ( .001 preferred) along with a thinner rotor to dissipate less heat.
Yeah I heard that too. But after I researched it, I came to believe that the run-out issues were actually machining issues. It seems the equipment (now don't hang me) of the 60s and 70s supposedly had a hard time with parallelism.I can't speak to that. In 99 I happened to be working in a shop with a more modern machine, so I machined my own KH rotors,taking multiple very thin, slow cuts.(they didn't need much). It seems to have worked cuz they are still on the car, have never been retouched, and still stop smoothly.(unlike my pos '06 LaCrosse) I did, however buy a donor car with KHers for spare parts. They are still on the shelf, 17 years later.
 
I guess I will have to dissent. I prefer single piston calipers in all but heavy duty applications like a truck. They are simple and effective. I have had too many bad experiences with the old Kelsey Hayes stuff. Just my personal preference.

The biggest issue I had with them was condensation in the brake fluid caused the Pistons to seize in the bores. That is a maintainence issue.

The other issue was the power brake system. They will stop way better with a manual mastercylinder with the correct size bore.
 
Get that hygroscopic fluid out of there. Dot-5. If rotors are warped, get them turned. no warped rotor will feel right if the calipers are floating or not. Drums out back are fine.
 
Dot 5 has its drawbacks, too. Its inability to absorb moisture means that wherever the moisture is, so will rust be. At least Dot 3 and 4 absorb moisture, so it is evenly distributed and diluted more. That's the whole point of changing the fluid and flushing the system more frequently than every 40 years. lol
 
As always a ton of good info. I have rotors and calipers off a 95 GT mustang, I have a ammco brake turning machine so no issue there. I'm taking as many Mopar parts as possible...
 
Dot 5 has its drawbacks, too. Its inability to absorb moisture means that wherever the moisture is, so will rust be. ...
People say that, but doubt any have used DOT 5. If this mythical moisture is a concern, wouldn't you have the same issue in your power steering system? I removed the MC from my 65 Chrysler after using DOT 5 in it for 15 yrs and not a spot of rust inside. I was simply changing to a dual reservoir MC.
 
People say that, but doubt any have used DOT 5. If this mythical moisture is a concern, wouldn't you have the same issue in your power steering system? I removed the MC from my 65 Chrysler after using DOT 5 in it for 15 yrs and not a spot of rust inside. I was simply changing to a dual reservoir MC.

I didn't throw it out there for debate. It's a well known fact. You can find that information anywhere on the net where Dot 5 is talked about. Even on manufacturers web sites. It's no secret and never had been. We've even had discussions on it right here on this forum.

If you do a search you will see.
 
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