When to worry about engine noises?

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Engine builders recommend using the rotella because it was higher in zinc but apparently they dont use as much zinc anymore. I cant confirm that as it is just what I have been told.
I used it a lot with no guff so far but Im trying the Lucas break in oil on the next build. Like honey! Often wonder about diesel oil being hard on the int shaft for dist and oil pump.

Roller motors are not flat tappet so there is no need for zinc or zinc additives. A synthetic will work fine after break in.

You can get a piece of 1/2" wood dowel about 2 1/2 feet long, place one endo of the dowel on a valve cover bolt and the other end placed against a solid part of your ear, you will be able to hear many noises, this also works well on water pumps and other items that have rotational or metal to metal contact.

Click Me
 
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Roller motors are not flat tappet so there is no need for zinc or zinc additives. A synthetic will work fine after break in.


That’s just not true. All engine oils need zinc. Zinc is part of the dry film lubrication that happens in all engines.

The rings need it. The guides need it. So it has really nothing to do with what lifter you use other than you can use LESS ZDDP with roller lifters and that’s only because the ZDDP is a consumable in the oil. If you start with less, you need to change the oil sooner with flat tappets than rollers because it gets used up faster.

So the amount of ZDDP (in PPM) is based on what lifter you use because it gets used up faster and not because a flat lifter requires more.
 
I prefer a long 3/8 drive extension to use as a stethoscope. Works much better than wood.
 
That’s just not true. All engine oils need zinc. Zinc is part of the dry film lubrication that happens in all engines.

The rings need it. The guides need it. So it has really nothing to do with what lifter you use other than you can use LESS ZDDP with roller lifters and that’s only because the ZDDP is a consumable in the oil. If you start with less, you need to change the oil sooner with flat tappets than rollers because it gets used up faster.

So the amount of ZDDP (in PPM) is based on what lifter you use because it gets used up faster and not because a flat lifter requires more.

Actually zinc oil additives for synthetic is actually ZDTP, Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, whereas conventional oil Zinc is ZDDP, Zinc Dialkylphophate.

During engine break-in especially in older engines, you should be using a formulated break in oil. There is intended wear necessary to the rings and cylinder walls to ensure proper ring seating. That is why the manufacturers recommend changing that oil after a brief period. With older engines the piston to wall clearances and bearing clearances are much "looser" so to speak, while modern engines have much tighter clearances and smoother cylinder walls at assembly, roller cams and lifters and well atomized fuel injection to ensure that there is less wash on the cylinder walls.

Zinc and molybdenum are often combined. The zinc has a polarity to it which effectively causes it to suspend itself and become a sacrificial element during the high-pressure / heat cycles of valve trains as well as TDC and BTC stokes of the rings and cylinder walls, the zinc is converted to an ash after the high heat event. The modern lubricants use less ZDDP as it tends to damage the catalytic emissions system. The molybdenum compounds provide lubrication in a more traditional sense.

In most discussions regarding ZDDP additives it is related to flat tappet cams and their failure due to improper break in.

just sayin..
 
I'm sorry to hear the car hasn't been flogged LOL.. that's all I've ever done with mine from day one. 20 minute break in at home three or four miles around the neighborhood and straight out to Woodburn....
Why would someone have a stroker motor 4-speed and Dana 60 and not flog at every chance ya ever got...
 
I'm sorry to hear the car hasn't been flogged LOL.. that's all I've ever done with mine from day one. 20 minute break in at home three or four miles around the neighborhood and straight out to Woodburn....
Why would someone have a stroker motor 4-speed and Dana 60 and not flog at every chance ya ever got...

Because I would have to clean bugs off the front end and windshield and rubber off the rear quarters.
 
I'd be using the warranty, 20/ 40 #s oil pressure is a sign of something going away.
If it only goes up to 40, the engine is only good to 4000 rpm at this point.
6000 rpm probably picking rods off the pavement.
 
Ime off the shelf synthetics are dog piss. I don't mind the statement about straight 30w....street car. Oil viscosity calms down warmed up, not a max power deal.
Racing, don't want it hot...want the least hp eaten up...5 20w.
Either way the oil psi would be higher than what he has.
Look forward to reading the cause of the issue once figured out.
 
Actually zinc oil additives for synthetic is actually ZDTP, Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, whereas conventional oil Zinc is ZDDP, Zinc Dialkylphophate.

During engine break-in especially in older engines, you should be using a formulated break in oil. There is intended wear necessary to the rings and cylinder walls to ensure proper ring seating. That is why the manufacturers recommend changing that oil after a brief period. With older engines the piston to wall clearances and bearing clearances are much "looser" so to speak, while modern engines have much tighter clearances and smoother cylinder walls at assembly, roller cams and lifters and well atomized fuel injection to ensure that there is less wash on the cylinder walls.

Zinc and molybdenum are often combined. The zinc has a polarity to it which effectively causes it to suspend itself and become a sacrificial element during the high-pressure / heat cycles of valve trains as well as TDC and BTC stokes of the rings and cylinder walls, the zinc is converted to an ash after the high heat event. The modern lubricants use less ZDDP as it tends to damage the catalytic emissions system. The molybdenum compounds provide lubrication in a more traditional sense.

In most discussions regarding ZDDP additives it is related to flat tappet cams and their failure due to improper break in.

just sayin..


In my above post I did type out ZDTP but I used ZDDP to kind of help keep the confusion to a minimum.

The rest of your post is spot on.
 
I'm sorry to hear the car hasn't been flogged LOL.. that's all I've ever done with mine from day one. 20 minute break in at home three or four miles around the neighborhood and straight out to Woodburn....
Why would someone have a stroker motor 4-speed and Dana 60 and not flog at every chance ya ever got...

How is ”flogging” an engine with low oil pressure a smart thing?
 
I'd be using the warranty, 20/ 40 #s oil pressure is a sign of something going away.
If it only goes up to 40, the engine is only good to 4000 rpm at this point.
6000 rpm probably picking rods off the pavement.
Howgwash... Another perpetuated fairy tale...
 
I would also like to know what oil pump is used. If it is "just" a high volume, the pressure could be normal. Not all HV pumps are delivered with a high pressure spring.

Also, the camshaft and valve train could be responsible for a lot of the noise. These fast rate of lift cams are known for making noise, so again, this could be normal. Just too many unknown variables here to make a judgement, plus, it's not ours to make.

Lastly, were I looking for "more" oil pressure, I certainly would not do it with a different grade oil.
 
The whole great thing about a blueprint engine is the warranty...
They don't build the stroker motors for people to Grandma them to the grocery store...
Don't let the internet gurus get in your head LOL half them don't even have a car or a V8...
While they sound very sure of themselves and very convincing he'd be shocked at what they don't know....
Extractable Hot rod magazine and some good positive writing skills and you can be an internet guru too... LOL
Enjoy your engine and don't overthink it you got a warranty if need be use it that's what you paid for...
 
These fast rate of lift cams are known for making noise
My RB 500 has a high lift cam hydraulic. After break in, it sounds almost like marbles in the engine or a solid cam. Scared the hell out of me. I went so far as to change to different set of lifters. Still the same. Car runs awesome. It's been 8 years now. I picked up a solid cam and lifter set for it to put in this year really only to make it sound normal if that makes any sense.
 
rotella can't be that bad my Detroit has over 20 thousand hours on it and my last oil test rated it in great condition . it was rebuild the 1st time at 31 thousand hours it didn't need it but for piece of mind , where i work you can't call a taxi or walk home .
 
My RB 500 has a high lift cam hydraulic. After break in, it sounds almost like marbles in the engine or a solid cam. Scared the hell out of me. I went so far as to change to different set of lifters. Still the same. Car runs awesome. It's been 8 years now. I picked up a solid cam and lifter set for it to put in this year really only to make it sound normal if that makes any sense.

My hydraulic makes some noise as well. 50-60 lbs of oil pressure though.
 
rotella can't be that bad my Detroit has over 20 thousand hours on it and my last oil test rated it in great condition . it was rebuild the 1st time at 31 thousand hours it didn't need it but for piece of mind , where i work you can't call a taxi or walk home .

Thats because you are using a diesel oil in a diesel. Not a diesel oil in a gas engine. Or a gasoline oil in a diesel.
 
Due to work and kids, it will likely be a few days before I can start the car again but I will double check my oil pressure. Even if the gauge is inaccurate, it's the same one that was hooked to the last motor and this one is reading consistently lower. Again, the tech I spoke with last summer said that it was within the safe range so it appears that it doesn't cross some level of concern for Blueprint.

It has Doug's headers and new gaskets. I retorqued all of the header bolts last summer when trying to track down the noise but it's worth checking them again. I don't believe it's an exhaust leak unfortunately.

As for the oil choice, I hope it's that simple and that no damage has been done.

Shell Rotella is rated for gasoline engines too. While it wouldn't be the oil I would ordinarily choose, using it in gasoline engines is certainly not unheard of. The extra zinc is something that is widely understood to be needed for flat tappet motors but (unless I TOTALLY missed it) there was nothing in the document stating that it would hurt roller motors. I specifically picked it to make sure I was obeying the recommendations.

I'm sorry to hear the car hasn't been flogged LOL.. that's all I've ever done with mine from day one. 20 minute break in at home three or four miles around the neighborhood and straight out to Woodburn....
Why would someone have a stroker motor 4-speed and Dana 60 and not flog at every chance ya ever got...

The 4spd only has about 200 miles on it! The clutch is still being broken in. As for the miles with the old 904, I was have been weary of high RPM. Don't get me wrong, it has seen 5k but not often and not for long.

In any case, the motor seems to be running strong so I'm optimistic that it's not fatally wounded by whatever is going on.
 
Due to work and kids, it will likely be a few days before I can start the car again but I will double check my oil pressure. Even if the gauge is inaccurate, it's the same one that was hooked to the last motor and this one is reading consistently lower. Again, the tech I spoke with last summer said that it was within the safe range so it appears that it doesn't cross some level of concern for Blueprint.

It has Doug's headers and new gaskets. I retorqued all of the header bolts last summer when trying to track down the noise but it's worth checking them again. I don't believe it's an exhaust leak unfortunately.

As for the oil choice, I hope it's that simple and that no damage has been done.

Shell Rotella is rated for gasoline engines too. While it wouldn't be the oil I would ordinarily choose, using it in gasoline engines is certainly not unheard of. The extra zinc is something that is widely understood to be needed for flat tappet motors but (unless I TOTALLY missed it) there was nothing in the document stating that it would hurt roller motors. I specifically picked it to make sure I was obeying the recommendations.



The 4spd only has about 200 miles on it! The clutch is still being broken in. As for the miles with the old 904, I was have been weary of high RPM. Don't get me wrong, it has seen 5k but not often and not for long.

In any case, the motor seems to be running strong so I'm optimistic that it's not fatally wounded by whatever is going on.

I suggest you get on the phone and call a company like Torco, HPL or another small batch oil manufacturer and ask them about dual rated oils.

The additive package is different between the two and it’s so different they should not be used one way or the other. IOW’s, no one in the right mind would tell anyone to use a non diesel rated oil in a diesel.

I’ll say it again, 20 pounds of pressure at a hot idle is too damned low regardless of who says it’s good.

Let’s say your gauge reads 10 psi low (shows 20 when it has 30 actual) that is still at the gauge. There is many, many FEET of oil passages, sharp right angle bends and other obstacles to get around and over.

So what your gauge says is nowhere near what is happening at your bearings. It’s far less. Every time I pull an engine apart and see beat up cam bearings I know the oil pressure was low at idle. Every time.

So now that 30 pounds of pressure you have is maybe 10 pounds at the cam bearings. You have 16 valve springs pushing down on those bearings (obviously not all at once but there is a pretty good load pushing down on the bearings) and the cam eats the bearings.

Now follow the oil up the rest of the way to the rockers. You’ll be lucky to have 5 pounds there. And it could be zero. Same thing. Blued or scuffed shafts is a sure sign there wasn‘t enough oil there.

Pressure is resistance to flow. When you have little to no pressure you have NO FLOW. Pressure and flow go together. You can’t have one without the other.

This is one reason why I use high volume pumps on all my Chrysler builds. The HV pump gets more oil everywhere sooner so consequently the pressure goes up. Without that extra flow, the pressure goes down.

You need to figure out exactly what your oil pressure is and then make some decisions. It would be nice to know what your bearing clearances are and if you have half or full groove main bearings.

All of those things dictate oil pressure, as does the grade of oil. Sometimes you have to overcome builder mistakes in clearance with a higher grade oil, because it’s cheaper and easier to change oil than to unscrew bearing clearances that are too wide.
 
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