j par
Well-hung Member
Oops
who has the fastest 318 ?! ( OUT ) 410 stroker ( IN! )
- Thread starter j par
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j par
Well-hung Member
kind of thinking that next year will be better than this year this year be better than last year? and next year when I want to upgrade the motor I shouldn't have to pull it out of the car just a heads and cam?
SpareParts
Well-Known Member
Sure, why not
Wanna build a tough 367? I'll sell ya some stuff. I'll tell you everything I had to go 11.70 on a 96* humid day at 3340lbs
Wanna build a tough 367? I'll sell ya some stuff. I'll tell you everything I had to go 11.70 on a 96* humid day at 3340lbs
j par
Well-hung Member
The 318 is knocking bad! Must rebuild. After all the research a 360 stroker is the cheapest way to go - cheaper than stroking the 318! I'm starting from the bottom up. I should be faster than last year, and room to grow next year. 13.7 @98mph with the 318 this year. Hopefully 12.7 this coming year, and my goal of 11's next year with more $$$ in the top end next year. With all this said, I can't see where I'm wasting money? This route will allow me to get a quality bottom end in and put money into the top as I get it. I've already pm'ed a member in the next state up about some 273 rockers.
The obvious is it needs to breathe better, but the question remains - will my (temporary) inferior top end HURT my new bottom end?
j par
Well-hung Member
I'm already committed to the stroker, but we may be able to do some business on that oil pan still.
SpareParts
Well-Known Member
lead69
hopeless car junkie
It would only be around $200 to get the heads right with dual springs and the spring pad step cut at the shop I use,I assume it would be about the same with yours.They can also cut for positive seals at the same time if you dont have them already.Then buy the carbide bits from summit and bone up on head porting,this is basicly free power.As far as cams if your dead broke I have a nice used mopar solid cam 296/.557 that you can have for $50.Do these and then you will make some power cheap.By the way what shop are you using?.
j par
Well-hung Member
I might take you up on the cam if I can get ajustable rockers to use it.
I'm using portland engine rebuilders, I toured the shop 30 years ago with my
high school auto shop class and they remember my teacher herb kingham.
Needless to say they are treating me well.
LOL.... I've seen this over and over, Spareparts. Many people that don't want to think just dump a 4 inch crank and believe they are entitled to 11's. I personally watched a mild 440 (850 dp holley, cast 906 heads) with 3.91's turn 10.50's, while the duster next to him had a 496 stroker 440 with 4.11's turning 11.20's. This is a repeated story. Strokers will run, but it's not a gift. I personally watched a cast head, single 4bbl 340 turn 10.30's in a drag duster. So much to be said about the builder....No problem, beating strokers is more fun tho:glasses7:
j par
Well-hung Member
! Let's turn this into an apples and oranges thread! going to build a 318 you were all happy but now that I'm doing anything else you're just hating on my threads. I think there's a lot to be said about the person driving these cars you're talking about also take for instance my buddy with his $65,000 2010 GT 1 Corvette at 540 horsepower and couldn't even do better than a 14 .3 and Here I am in my old beat up 318 duster and do 14 .2 that day and I'm down to a 13 .7 with a lot more on the table. stop hating!I'm not entitled to anything I always earn everything I get or do and I'm a number person it doesn't makes sense to spend more money and get less I'm not married to the 318 I do have a lot of respect for it and like it. I'm keeping my 318 for future fun. :happy1:
Easy, Easy! nobody is hating! We are having just as much fun as you are, and I hope the best for you and your project.
You are entitled to your opinion and your project, but..... but..... but...... so are we! Not against strokers at all, not at all. Build one, and I hope you go fast!!!! See if you can get your stroker to run as fast as Spareparts stock stroke 318!!!!! 
frosty_the_punk
Well-Known Member
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I think the small cam and high compression are going to cause detonation problems unless you can get yourself some better fuel.
Thick head gaskets might help, but that's gonna cost you a few dollars which might be better spend on getting your heads setup for a more suitable cam and springs.
I would recommend selecting the camshaft you plan to use and getting matching valve springs the first time round. Sure, you will have to machine your not-so-high-performance 318 cylinder heads to take the extra lift but it'll save you time in dicking around pulling your grill, radiator, harmonic balancer, water pump and timing cover out, disconnecting transmission cooler lines (if it's an auto), fuel pump, alternator etc with trying to swap cams into a motor while it's installed in the car. PITA job if you ask me and easily worth spending a few bucks to avoid..
Many would disagree but personally, I'd honestly just pull the whole motor out if I'm going to that much trouble anyhow. it's MUCH easier to seal everything up and inspect things for possible leaks and mistakes on an engine stand!
Part of the money you spend to get the heads to take the lift on a bigger "stroker worthy" cam suited for higher compression will also still be in those heads if you decide to sell them later on, you'd get probably half your money back on it.
Or better yet, who knows... one day you might just wanna put them back on while you get your flash "stroker-worthy" heads ported for some extra ponies? spare heads = no down time! that's worth paying a little extra for too.
I'm not trying to be critical, but there are a lot of good reasons being presented to you to "cam-up" from the get-go. the biggest one is your conflicting high compression and current mild camshaft specs.
Hope this helps, Best of luck with your build.
Thick head gaskets might help, but that's gonna cost you a few dollars which might be better spend on getting your heads setup for a more suitable cam and springs.
I would recommend selecting the camshaft you plan to use and getting matching valve springs the first time round. Sure, you will have to machine your not-so-high-performance 318 cylinder heads to take the extra lift but it'll save you time in dicking around pulling your grill, radiator, harmonic balancer, water pump and timing cover out, disconnecting transmission cooler lines (if it's an auto), fuel pump, alternator etc with trying to swap cams into a motor while it's installed in the car. PITA job if you ask me and easily worth spending a few bucks to avoid..
Many would disagree but personally, I'd honestly just pull the whole motor out if I'm going to that much trouble anyhow. it's MUCH easier to seal everything up and inspect things for possible leaks and mistakes on an engine stand!
Part of the money you spend to get the heads to take the lift on a bigger "stroker worthy" cam suited for higher compression will also still be in those heads if you decide to sell them later on, you'd get probably half your money back on it.
Or better yet, who knows... one day you might just wanna put them back on while you get your flash "stroker-worthy" heads ported for some extra ponies? spare heads = no down time! that's worth paying a little extra for too.
I'm not trying to be critical, but there are a lot of good reasons being presented to you to "cam-up" from the get-go. the biggest one is your conflicting high compression and current mild camshaft specs.
Hope this helps, Best of luck with your build.
moper
Well-Known Member
"The 318 is knocking bad! Must rebuild."
Ah. Didn;t realize it was hurt. Sorry I missed that...
" After all the research a 360 stroker is the cheapest way to go - cheaper than stroking the 318!"
Agreed.
" I'm starting from the bottom up. With all this said, I can't see where I'm wasting money?"
Switching gears a little to make a point - What do you think the Empire State Building would look like with a double-wide as the upper 30 floors? Would you consider it beautiful? Fully functional? Some sort of ugly compromise? Do you feel it would limit the commercial value of the rest of it? Potentially cause damage to the good lower floors because of a bad roof?
"This route will allow me to get a quality bottom end in and put money into the top as I get it."
I understand, but your parts choices have already included what I would consider compromise of the wrong type or wasteful expense. Hence my comments. Just my opinion here but I can gaurantee my engines (and others' commenting here) run hard - as hard as any pro builder on this board. You don't have to listen to any of us. But that doesn't stop us from responding and trying to do what we consider helping you.
"I've already pm'ed a member in the next state up about some 273 rockers.
The obvious is it needs to breathe better, but the question remains - will my (temporary) inferior top end HURT my new bottom end?"
Good call on the rockers. In my opinion, you leave the door open for damage to the bottom end because of two critical choices: 1. The piston choice - gives you too much static compression that you simply don't need and are prone to detonation and pinging even with race fuel (you don't have to hear it for it to beat parts to death). 2. The choice to keep cam and valve springs - Cam will simply add to the tendency to detonate and springs if indeed they are stock you run a very real risk of losing control of the valvetrain. That's not just an rpm limiter but can do things like bend pushrods, punch holes in rockers, break springs, break lifters, and drop valves. Dished pistons would allow the cam you have to be run along with pump gas, but you still need to get the right valve springs for it. Anyone that says you will be "down on power" because in the future when you do put aluminum heads on it and it only has 10.2:1 vs 10.8: 1 is talking through their ***. COLOR]
Ah. Didn;t realize it was hurt. Sorry I missed that...
" After all the research a 360 stroker is the cheapest way to go - cheaper than stroking the 318!"
Agreed.
" I'm starting from the bottom up. With all this said, I can't see where I'm wasting money?"
Switching gears a little to make a point - What do you think the Empire State Building would look like with a double-wide as the upper 30 floors? Would you consider it beautiful? Fully functional? Some sort of ugly compromise? Do you feel it would limit the commercial value of the rest of it? Potentially cause damage to the good lower floors because of a bad roof?
"This route will allow me to get a quality bottom end in and put money into the top as I get it."
I understand, but your parts choices have already included what I would consider compromise of the wrong type or wasteful expense. Hence my comments. Just my opinion here but I can gaurantee my engines (and others' commenting here) run hard - as hard as any pro builder on this board. You don't have to listen to any of us. But that doesn't stop us from responding and trying to do what we consider helping you.
"I've already pm'ed a member in the next state up about some 273 rockers.
The obvious is it needs to breathe better, but the question remains - will my (temporary) inferior top end HURT my new bottom end?"
Good call on the rockers. In my opinion, you leave the door open for damage to the bottom end because of two critical choices: 1. The piston choice - gives you too much static compression that you simply don't need and are prone to detonation and pinging even with race fuel (you don't have to hear it for it to beat parts to death). 2. The choice to keep cam and valve springs - Cam will simply add to the tendency to detonate and springs if indeed they are stock you run a very real risk of losing control of the valvetrain. That's not just an rpm limiter but can do things like bend pushrods, punch holes in rockers, break springs, break lifters, and drop valves. Dished pistons would allow the cam you have to be run along with pump gas, but you still need to get the right valve springs for it. Anyone that says you will be "down on power" because in the future when you do put aluminum heads on it and it only has 10.2:1 vs 10.8: 1 is talking through their ***. COLOR]
j par
Well-hung Member
I'll be using 110 octane fuel. No transmission lines 4 speed:burnout: 596-- 360 heads so not as bad as the 318 heads. I'm going to have the shop touch them up or I'll have to see how bad/good things are, hoping to get the motor out by the end of the week to see what I can still use.
I pushed the thanks button, your comments are helpful.
j par
Well-hung Member
Thank you for your comments. I know I could have even better (more expensive) parts but I'm not looking for more than 500 horsepower. (I'm certainly not looking for it out of these heads) could have maybe use the old rods, but that might be part of the knocking sound? As I've said in the last post I'm going to use 110 octane fuel to help, not salve any detonation. The valve train I have has taken 6000 rpm plus, no problem (lucky maybe?). Any ways I'm trying to put together some better top end parts. One local member has a cam and another has posted 273 rockers. I have a little time before I need to have it running. (Early to mid March) maybe some home porting on the 596heads?
SpareParts
Well-Known Member
Easy, Easy! nobody is hating! We are having just as much fun as you are, and I hope the best for you and your project.
I'd bet on me lol
j par
Well-hung Member
Easy there tiger! LOL This last April I bought the car and since have changed the rear end, transmission, and now the motor. I have about 12 passes of real drag racing experience with the 318 in my life. With that said, I would love to have a heads up race if ether one of us were in the other's neighborhood! as of right now I would bet on you too, but we would have fun!
As far as 318 will run: I HAVE A FRIEND THAT HAS A CAR THATS FASTER THAN YOURS!!! LOL
j par
Well-hung Member
Update : sending to a member for the 273 rockers!
SpareParts
Well-Known Member
Damn I have 2 or 3 sets of them lol.
I'd definitely still wager my old 318 against most strokers that sit the same
I'd definitely still wager my old 318 against most strokers that sit the same
KnuckleDuster
Well-Known Member
Listen to Moper, he was a HUGE help to me sorting out what I wanted my build to be. I was on a budget, too, but I decided to be patient.I'm pretty confident the advice given saved me money in the long run. I put about 500 miles on mine before a leaky trans and money constraints put me on hiatus for the last year. I was happy with the performance, and in the downtime found out my converter was only rated at 1700 stall when it was supposed to be 2800...almost ready to go again with a better (around 3000-3500) converter and cannot wait to see what this thing will do.
This was last year with the old converter.
I live 2 blocks from the police station, so I barely tapped the pedal...
First tiny burnout with the Duster: [ame]http://youtu.be/YqZtMXk3zns[/ame]
This was last year with the old converter.
I live 2 blocks from the police station, so I barely tapped the pedal...
First tiny burnout with the Duster: [ame]http://youtu.be/YqZtMXk3zns[/ame]
j par
Well-hung Member
Cool! ! Sounds great!
j par
Well-hung Member
so here's what I've decided on. Of course I've already committed myself to the 410. As far as valvetrain I'm going to have my current cam custom ground into around a 525 lift with still yet to be determined duration. I'm sending for the 273 rockers and push rods.the machine shop is going to freshen up the heads a little put new seals Molly retainers and some decent springs to match the cam. and point me in the right direction for doing a little porting of my own.
Again my goals are to do better than this last year (13.7), around mid to high 12's this coming year, and mid to high 11's the following year with aluminum heads and better rockers, cam ( i.e. valvetrain)
to my goals sound out of whack for the combinations I'm talking about?
Again my goals are to do better than this last year (13.7), around mid to high 12's this coming year, and mid to high 11's the following year with aluminum heads and better rockers, cam ( i.e. valvetrain)
to my goals sound out of whack for the combinations I'm talking about?
Pana.Mopar
Duster Down Under
There's an old school slingshot dragster here in Sydney (Down Under) that's running a smog head 318 with injection and it's running 9.90's.. Awesome thing to watch!
As far as your goals, I'll just say this: If your going to have a stroker with aluminum heads in a year, I would not have mid to high 11's as a goal. Not when people are deep in the 10's with cast head 360's... and I say this to help you. Don't settle for the least you can get from your project, but go for the most you can get. By the way, I bought a 25 dollar 360, and slapped some j heads on it, purple shaft cam (484 lift) and 130 dollar speed pro pistons and ran into the 12's with 3.91's and a free-bee 727 out of a truck (never rebuilt the tranny lol). P.S. 3200 lb car and 100 % street form. Drove it 1 hr. to strip and raced it as I drove it.
j par
Well-hung Member
yes I know my goals aren't that ambitious but I want them a chieved without really having to kill the motor and having the motor for a few years and being able to pass the whole car on to my son who will hopefully pass it on to his not saying the motor will last that long specially once my kid gets a hold of it but at least give him something that'll run for a year or two with him and as far as what you did with that junkyard 360 that's why I'm keeping the 318 around so I can play with it buy cheap parts and do a kind of a home cheap rebuild on it and see what will come of it
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