Why a suregrip?

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7demon2

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ok i have a question. i have dealt with gm's for a long time. this is my first mopar i have ever had. in "GM" land no one wanted a "open" rear, with single wheel drive. you had to have a "posi" unit in it. it seems that with mopar everybody is always asking if you have a "suregrip" in it. it "seems" to be the rear of choice.just why is the "suregrip" rear so good? it is single wheel drive too....i could be wrong about all this, but am i?
 
the terms posi, suregrip, trac loc, etc. are more like brand names of the same thing. although there are some differences between certain units, ie clutch style vs. cone style etc.
mopars call them suregrips, chevy calls them posi's and ford calls them
trac loc's
 
i hear ya mbaird, but a "posi" unit is 2 wheels pulling. a "limited slip" is one wheel pulling..........i still don't get it.
 
Not to be the over corrective a$$hole but Fords term of choice is Limited Slip

And limited slip is both wheels applying power to the pavement... if its a one legger its just a plain old "open" diff
 
i hear ya 71Duster. i didn't realise ford used that term for theirs. gm used the "limited slip" term for their open rears, and "posi" for their two legged rears....
 
Yup the little tag I see at work all day even to this point still says limited slip.

Dont know if Chysler still uses the suregrip name anymore.
 
i don't know if they still do either. so why does everyone always ask if you have a "suregrip"? just why is the "suregrip" rear so good? it is a open rear from what i know of it. why wouldn't everyone want to just put a "posi" unit in it? i know with GM this is the first thing most everybody does......am i crazy or is this just me not understanding?
 
ok i think i have found the answer i was looking for with my question. i was reading some other posts and ran into a post done by "keith mopar". he is a new member here. his post has a website that i guess is his. it is worth checking out. anyway i saw a section about mopar rears. i looked in it and saw the following information. it seems that after reading this that the "suregrip" was a rear that was open, but acted more like a "posi" rear. i guess this is why it is the rear of choice for mopars...kieth i hope you don't mind me bringing this info over here, but i figured it would help alot of other people like me, that are new to the world of mopars.

from keith mopar's site:

Sure Grip:
Sure Grip is the Chrysler name for a limited slip differential. It was optional on the 8-3/4" axles, 1958-1974. Two styles were used.

1958-1969 used the Dana Power-Lok (# 2881487). This unit utilized clutches for the differential locking action. The Power-Lok can be rebuilt using kit # 2070845 ( Mopar Performance [MP] # P4529484 ). In this assembly, axle driveshaft end thrust is taken by the thrust block assembly (replacement # 2881313). This Sure Grip appeared in the '741' and '742' assemblies. The axle bearings are: 25590 (Timken cone), and 25520 (Timken cup), (Chrysler numbers 1790523 and 696403). The Dana Power-Lok can be recognized by its bolt-together assembly, bolts around the side opposite the ring gear, and multiple openings exposing the cross shafts.

1969-1974 used the Borg Warner Spin Resistant (# 2881343). This unit utilized a spring-preloaded cone friction arrangement for the locking action. Axle end thrust is taken by the cross shaft. This Sure Grip appeared in '489' assemblies and 70 and later '741'/'742' assemblies. The differential axle bearings are: LM 104912 (Timken cone), and LM 104949 (Timken cup), (Chrysler numbers 2852729 and 2852728). The Borg Warner Spin Resistant unit can be recognized by its lack of bolts on the side opposite the ring gear (like the Dana), and two openings exposing the preload springs. Borg Warner sold this design to Auburn Gear who currently offers the replacement Sure Grip assemblies.

Non-Sure Grip differentials can be identified by the large openings in the differential exposing the differential (aka. spider) gears. There are no springs or clutches.

Interchange Notes:

The two Sure Grip types can be interchanged between the carriers if the matching differential axle bearings are retained. The outside diameter of the cups are the same between the '741'/'742' and the '489'; the inner cone differs.

The Sure Grip differential can be used as a direct replacement for the non-Sure Grip within the carrier/bearing limits previously noted.

There is an interchange problem with differentials and axles manufactured prior to 1964 (See Part II, Section 1: "Thrust Block Variations").
 
An open differential drives both wheels, but if one of the wheels looses traction then ALL the torque is directed to that one wheel that is spinning. This is what the majority of cars have. These are often refered to as a 'peg leg' rear end.

A limited slip differential is one that 'limits' the amount of torque applied to only one wheel. There are several implementations that accomplish this. One is to use spring loaded clutch discs, a typical example is the Eaton differential. Another way is to use cones instead of the clutches, the example for this is the Auburn differential. Mopar's marketing name for limited slip is 'Suregrip'. And all Suregrips fall into one of these two types of limited slip. Often times these limited slip differentials are called a 'posi', but that is incorrect

Next is the locking differential. This does not use traditional clutches, it use 'cogs' to positively lock the two axles yet still allows one axle to spin faster than the other in turns. This differential is correctly refered to as a 'posi' and the example of this is the Detroit Locker.

In full blown race cars a spool replaces the differential. This solidly locks the two axles together and does not allow either side to spin faster than the opposite side.

There is also a torque biasing differential that behaves similar to a limited slip. These are more common on FWD transaxles.

And there is also an aftermarket device called a Powertrax that can be added to an open differential to make it work similar to a limited slip. The sad thing is they cost as much or more than a true limited slip. However you don't have to disturb the gears to install it so it's easy for the backyard mechanic to set up.
 
hey GotDart now you are talking about something i do know about. the power trax rears are rears that have been talked about quite abit on the truck board i'm a member of. the consences over there is that those rears aren't worth the time of day! they break to easy with the trucks. cars may be different though......i have an eaton posi in my 72 gmc truck.
 
I was thinking the Track Lock was the name used in a Dana 60. I have been telling people that I have a 3.91 Dana 60 "track Lock" when asked what rear end I have in my 68 Formula S.
 
GotDart said:
An open differential drives both wheels, but if one of the wheels looses traction then ALL the torque is directed to that one wheel that is spinning. This is what the majority of cars have. These are often refered to as a 'peg leg' rear end.

A limited slip differential is one that 'limits' the amount of torque applied to only one wheel. There are several implementations that accomplish this. One is to use spring loaded clutch discs, a typical example is the Eaton differential. Another way is to use cones instead of the clutches, the example for this is the Auburn differential. Mopar's marketing name for limited slip is 'Suregrip'. And all Suregrips fall into one of these two types of limited slip. Often times these limited slip differentials are called a 'posi', but that is incorrect

Next is the locking differential. This does not use traditional clutches, it use 'cogs' to positively lock the two axles yet still allows one axle to spin faster than the other in turns. This differential is correctly refered to as a 'posi' and the example of this is the Detroit Locker.

In full blown race cars a spool replaces the differential. This solidly locks the two axles together and does not allow either side to spin faster than the opposite side.

There is also a torque biasing differential that behaves similar to a limited slip. These are more common on FWD transaxles.

And there is also an aftermarket device called a Powertrax that can be added to an open differential to make it work similar to a limited slip. The sad thing is they cost as much or more than a true limited slip. However you don't have to disturb the gears to install it so it's easy for the backyard mechanic to set up.

Very good explanation GotDart :thumblef:
 
7demon2 said:
i don't know if they still do either. so why does everyone always ask if you have a "suregrip"? just why is the "suregrip" rear so good? it is a open rear from what i know of it. why wouldn't everyone want to just put a "posi" unit in it? i know with GM this is the first thing most everybody does......am i crazy or is this just me not understanding?

Next time someone asks what kind of rear end you got tell them it's a Detroit Locker and watch the look on their face. :evil2:
 
Man you should see the lockers GM used in its late 90's trucks... The ones that suddenly go BANG! as they lock up. We had the joy of rebuilding the demo units at school. They look like a swiss watch inside! Seriously small small gears and such to make it work no wonder they had so many issues and trashed that set-up.
 
71Duster said:
Man you should see the lockers GM used in its late 90's trucks... The ones that suddenly go BANG! as they lock up. We had the joy of rebuilding the demo units at school. They look like a swiss watch inside! Seriously small small gears and such to make it work no wonder they had so many issues and trashed that set-up.
Yea Ford used them 2. A friend of mine had a 70ish 428 Cyclone (don't quote me) and every 3-4 burnouts he'd have to pull the clutch and replace the clutch disc because the shock springs were broke. It was a piece of crap.
 
I have always called them all Posi"s all my life and I have always been a Mopar man. We all know what the heck we mean anyway ! Ron
 
mbaird said:
the terms posi, suregrip, trac loc, etc. are more like brand names of the same thing. although there are some differences between certain units, ie clutch style vs. cone style etc.
mopars call them suregrips, chevy calls them posi's and ford calls them
trac loc's
What is so hard to understand about that?
 
halfaed said:
What is so hard to understand about that?

thats what I was going to say- excaept I get in this argument with a Chevy buddie all the time- he doesn't want a limited slip, he wants a posi- then I start banging my head against the wall ](*,) :banghead:
 
7demon2 said:
i don't know if they still do either. so why does everyone always ask if you have a "suregrip"? just why is the "suregrip" rear so good? it is a open rear from what i know of it. why wouldn't everyone want to just put a "posi" unit in it? i know with GM this is the first thing most everybody does......am i crazy or is this just me not understanding?
the new term at dodge is anti-spin diff.
 
Anti-spin almost sounds like it's locked up (seized) internally. When I come across someone that really dosen't understand what type of rear end they have, I just ask them if it lays one patch of rubber or two ( If its able to do so ) Each type of diff. has both good and bad points, depending on the actual use of the vehicle. ie; Racing; Street use :burnout:
 
And for more brand-specific terminology to muddy up the mix...AMC called their limited-slip rear-ends "Twin Grip." :thumblef:
 
GotDart, your definition of the Powertrax is wrong. It locks the axles in straight line, allowing "differentiation" in turns, when the gears overrun:

"It works something like this: During typical driving conditions, a Lock-Right–enhanced differential allows your axles to turn at different speeds (or differentiate), much like an open or limited-slip differential gear set. It’s a bit clicky-sounding during sharp, low-speed cornering (when the meshed teeth overrun each other), but this is perfectly natural. Since the unit is spring-loaded, under straightline operation (both axles turning in unison) the axles are continually locked together. That’s the key to full power transfer to the rear wheels and a solid hole shot."

Full article here:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/91299/index.html

They are expensive, but not as expensive as a new suregrip/posi/whatever and are much stronger than any of those OEM-type solutions. I have two of them installed in 8.75 rears on my cars and couldn't be happier! :thumblef:
 
The new anti-spin rears in the Ram 2500 and 3500 trucks need the park brake to activate the anti-spin.
There is a worm gear in the diff that needs to be applied by stopping the tire that is spinning. I learned this after ordering my Ram and getting stuck in the snow bank. I took it back and they too got stuck. They replaced the rear and the problem persisted.

After several trips to the dealer the manufacture told them to read the owners manual. Clear as day it tells you how to activate the ant-spin by applying the park brake with your left foot while pulling the release handle.

Being my truck was a 6 spd. the instructions were impossible to do because my left foot was on the clutch. Then they didn't know what to say except that the rear should not have been ordered with the truck. I have two now and they both are 6 spds with the same anti-spin rear.

Read the owners manual if you own a ram with this rear. The instructions are in there.

Why I brought this up is every term use for a dual traction style rear has its differences . But they all accomplish the same thing. Torque to both rear wheels and allowed to turn at different speeds for making turns.
 
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