Why does my car feel sluggish?

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Always start with tuning. And tuning always has to start with the timing curve. Initial timing is what you're (OP) is talking about. Well if it doesnt feel sluggish off idle, your intial's fine. But... You have to know the rest of the details on what you currently have. The distributor if it's factory it will have too much centrifical advance, and it will advance too slowly. So regardless of the carb, it will be a pig. So yes, "I don't know" is an answer. But if you are seriously looking for an answer to "why is it sluggish?", and your mind is open to possibilities other than what you might already think is a problem, than "I don't know" isn't good enough. "I'll find out" or "how do I find out" is much further along to finding a solution.

I saw your post when I had written mine - Good on checking. I have several friend who are great guys and have built a ton of cars. But they don't always build cars that work perfectly...lol.
Also - check the throttle lever and your kickdown linkage. Sounds like it's not adjusted properly... Prob because of the intake you have.
 
67Dart273 said:
NO!! That is NOT an answer. "I'll find out" might be an answer.
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Really? we're gonna argue semantics here?

And yes, its an answer. Not the one you or anyone asking wants, but an answer none the less.
 
magnumdust said:
Really? we're gonna argue semantics here?

And yes, its an answer. Not the one you or anyone asking wants, but an answer none the less.
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WELL THEN WE ARE DONE HERE

I have not added up HOW MANY of us asked, suggested, requested, demanded that you LEARN how or GET ASSISTANCE to check your timing.

If all you want to do is sit in front of your keyboard and type, fine

I've already check my timing marks

I've already degreed my balancer

I've already checked my dist for operability and confirmed that the timing is where I want it.
 
67Dart273 said:
WELL THEN WE ARE DONE HERE

I have not added up HOW MANY of us asked, suggested, requested, demanded that you LEARN how or GET ASSISTANCE to check your timing.

If all you want to do is sit in front of your keyboard and type, fine

I've already check my timing marks

I've already degreed my balancer

I've already checked my dist for operability and confirmed that the timing is where I want it.
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Good for you, go on another thread please.

I never said i was unwilling to double check my timing, BUT i work today and was busy yesterday. Is it such a bear for you to think ahead and explore other possibilities presuming the timing might be set correctly?
 
Okay gentleman lets just take a deep breath. Before going any further with this thread as far as what is or what isn't the problem Magnum needs to answer the 1st and most important question. Magnum if you don't have a timing light or know how to use it find someone who does. First disconnect the vacuum line at the distributor, if it has one, and plug the line. Next idle the engine down to 700-800 rpm to make sure the centrifugal advance is not operating. Next read the timing with the light, this is your initial timing (do not adjust anything). Next start to speed up the engine and record at what rpm the timing starts to advance and at what rpm it stops advancing, you may have to go above 4000 rpm. Lastly what is the timing when the ignition stops advancing, this is your maximum centrifugal advance and again what was the RPM at this maximum.

Like I said until we start with this info any further discussion is just a waste of time.
 
demon seed said:
First disconnect the vacuum line at the distributor, if it has one, and plug the line. Next idle the engine down to 700-800 rpm to make sure the centrifugal advance is not operating. Next read the timing with the light, this is your initial timing (do not adjust anything). Next start to speed up the engine and record at what rpm the timing starts to advance and at what rpm it stops advancing, you may have to go above 4000 rpm. Lastly what is the timing when the ignition stops advancing, this is your maximum centrifugal advance and again what was the RPM at this maximum.
QUOTE]

That is an excellent, concise, explanation. I am sure this "how-to" will help many folks. (myself included).

Thanks,
Pat
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AdamR said:
They are only trying to help, If they ask you a question and you dont answer it or try to find the answer how can they help ?
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Yeah I understand and its valid until they start venting their pent up anger at me because i havent had time to go check that. At that point its not an attempt to help.
 
By my comment, I mean know disrespect. Everybody had to start somewhere. Im still learning everyday. But the basic,in tunning, are required to get a good starting point.
I see your in Cal. Where abouts ?
 
you might as well move this thread to where it belongs...small block tech...I'm just say'n.

Good point, moved.


Once Magnum returns with the ignition info other ideas can be discussed. For those of us who have done the troubleshooting it's easy to get from A to M, however for those that haven't and are maybe still learning a step by step process to solving problems is the best way to proceed and is how most of us learned.
 
magnumdust said:
From a standing to start to WOT, it doesn't seem to revv over 3-3500rpm until i'm in 3rd. Which from what i was able to find through search has to do with the governor & kickdown in the transmission.
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Do you have the throttle pressure linkage hooked up to the trans and adjusted correctly?

If not, you're cooking the transmission.
 
Make sure your air cleaner is supplying enough air. I had the K&N 14x3 and it wouldn't supply enough air for my small block (meters 69gph of fuel when running at peak power) and it just starved at 5000rpm. I bought the K&N filter top and it made a world of difference in the performance. I imagine a 600 cfm carb may be a little small if you're running over 5000 rpm in addition to not having a large enough filter.
 
Well we've lost Magnum (just kidding), sure he'll be back. He's got a ton of stuff to check over gentleman, some excellent advice by the way, when he's got some answers particularily around his ignition set points he can contact one of us and we'll open her back up and hopefully get his problem fixed.

Terry
 
So Hopefully this will go a bit smoother:

Initial timing is set a 16 degrees, but it maxes out up around 40-42 degrees. Do i need an aftermarket distributor is there a way that I could modify that stock one to only advance to the correct range?

Also prior to this, i found a bit of a linkage issue, but thats been fixed. It looks like the previous owner was too cheap to buy the correct kickdown linkage adapter for the edelbrock carb.

Its ran/raced that way(first pic) for atleast 2 years, so i wonder if that bad linkage cause the car to eat the clutch packs and my tranny is slipping? The first pic isnt great, but basically the kickdown would only be moved at full throttle.
 

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What RPM for full timing?

Trans acting any better (holding gear longer) with the new linkage?

You sure the secondaries are opening all the way?

You could set initial at 10* and that would keep your total lower, but its better to be able to run more initial. If its not detonating, I'm betting timing coming in late would be more of a problem vs. running too much total.

Anyone got a Mopar Performance dizzy you can borrow?

Another thought. It might be worth bumping the motor over to approx TDC on number 1 and verifying that your balancer 0 is somewhere near the timing mark. These balancers have been known to spin on the hub causing all kinds of issues.
 
LXguy said:
What RPM for full timing?

Trans acting any better (holding gear longer) with the new linkage?

You sure the secondaries are opening all the way?

You could set initial at 10* and that would keep your total lower, but its better to be able to run more initial. If its not detonating, I'm betting timing coming in late would be more of a problem vs. running too much total.

Anyone got a Mopar Performance dizzy you can borrow?

Another thought. It might be worth bumping the motor over to approx TDC on number 1 and verifying that your balancer 0 is somewhere near the timing mark. These balancers have been known to spin on the hub causing all kinds of issues.
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It was about 3500-4k for full timing.

The new linkage is making things sort of better, but its a very minimal different and it still seems to shift at 3k @ full throttle between gears.

10* isnt really doable. The car ran *okay*(but not optimal idle) at 14 and wouldnt run lower than that.

And nope on the mopar performance dist. borrowing. I'm the only mopar owner among my car friends.

On the last bit, was gonna do that today, but the pouring rain made things a little difficult. However, after getting what seemed to be an accurate timing made me think that it is not an issue.

How would i know if the secondaries are opening up?
 
magnumdust said:
How would i know if the secondaries are opening up?
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With the car NOT running look down in the carb and see if the rear plates open all the way as you open the throttle wide open, sometimes they can be catching on the gasket or manifold.

There is, I believe an adjustable plate you can buy to put in your dizzy to adjust the mechanical advance.

Look here: http://www.4secondsflat.com/

They also offer a service to re-curve your distributor.
 
16 initial is ok but you need to weld the advance slots up a bit to get total down to 36-38 then swap some springs around to get it all in around 2500rpms.

Have a friend hold the gas to the floor (motor off) then see if its opening the throttle blades all the way buy moving the lever back by hand.

Is your kickdown rods from a 4bbl car ?
 
AdamR said:
Have a friend hold the gas to the floor (motor off) then see if its opening the throttle blades all the way buy moving the lever back by hand.
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That's probably the better way, that way you can tell if everything is working correctly.

16* initial is a good start. You might eek out a couple more degrees out of it. Ideally like Adam said you want 36-38 all in by 2500 at the most.

You are doing this with the vacuum advance unhooked and plugged, correct?
 
Badsport said:
With the car NOT running look down in the carb and see if the rear plates open all the way as you open the throttle wide open, sometimes they can be catching on the gasket or manifold.

There is, I believe an adjustable plate you can buy to put in your dizzy to adjust the mechanical advance.

Look here: http://www.4secondsflat.com/

They also offer a service to re-curve your distributor.
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Maybe i'm looking at this wrong, so here are some pics:

Looking down the rear of the carb i see this plate(1st pic not wot) and at WOT(2nd), it doesnt seem to move.
 

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