zinc oil useage?

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Bewy said:
92b.
Yes correct about the levels of zinc. When you look at different oils that have zinc, the amount varies greatly, often from 800 ppm to over 2000 ppm. That tells any sensible person that more zinc is adding for marketing purposes [ ' Buy ours, it has more zinc' ]....or nobody really knows for sure if there is a defined/minimum amount that is needed & any more than that is wasted.

A dyno test with, say, 1000 ppm of zinc in the oil, & the same oil without the zinc will prove whether zinc is a 'power eater'. It is no different from a claim that thicker oils costs hp.
You dyno test the same brand/type of oil in high & low viscosities...& let the dyno tell the story.
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You have some conclusions about zinc that do not agree with what some others in this thread are saying. There is nothing wrong with that. I suggest with an open mind you present your conclusions to experts in the field tribology and get their input about what effects zinc has in oil and what factors determine the correct amount for the application. You can ask them directy or read the information that experts have already written on the subject. You may be supprised to find that the dyno test you are describing have already been done.
If you're serious about finding answers about zinc send an email to lake@totalseal.com and ask him. I believe he has actually done the kind of testing you are refering to regarding zinc and what factors determine the correct amount for the application. Also ask him for additional sources of information on the subject. Please report back your findings.
 
Bewy said:
Turk,
You should try & remember what you post. In post #48, you said zinc was 'an incredible power eater'.
Using the word incredible in that context implies: very large, huge.
Where is the proof????
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You are a big boy. Either do the research and see what’s out there or, better yet spend YOUR money to test.

Zinc is a power eater. That’s known and proven fact (except you can’t grasp that yet) so get over it.
 
Well if it is a PROVEN FACT that zinc is a POWER EATER, there must be before/after tests that prove it.

Where are the test? You guys are making the claim not me, so provide some EVIDENCE.

A statement from Newbomb Turk is not evidence, especially since he is proven wrong on so many occasions.....
 
Bewy said:
Well if it is a PROVEN FACT that zinc is a POWER EATER, there must be before/after tests that prove it.

Where are the test? You guys are making the claim not me, so provide some EVIDENCE.

A statement from Newbomb Turk is not evidence, especially since he is proven wrong on so many occasions.....
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You have a phone and the internet. Do some research. Someone else already did that for you and you didn’t like that link.
 
I have done a LOT of research on the net about Zinc. Watched a 1 hr video by Lake Speed jr. I could not find any mention, ANYWHERE, of zinc causing a power loss & certainly not being a 'power eater' [ Newbomb Turk's words, not mine ].
The Penrite Oils web site has a 3 page technical paper on Zinc Myths & Legends. It talks about zinc providing a glass like protective film. Push a piece of steel across a glass plate & then push the same steel piece across a sheet of emery. Which one do you think absorbs more 'power'?

If zinc really did cost power, it would be a hot topic everywhere.....not just in one person's head.

And then there is common sense......

1000ppm is a common proportion of zinc that is added to oil [ sometimes more, sometimes less ]. That is 0.1% of the fill. Not 1%, not 10%, 0.1%!!!
Do you really think that 0.1% of anything in oil is going to be a 'power eater'????
 
As for links about zinc.
The link in post #94 says nothing definitive. Words like 'may', 'some', 'suggested' are hardly a definitive conclusion.
 
Bewy said:
I have done a LOT of research on the net about Zinc. Watched a 1 hr video by Lake Speed jr. I could not find any mention, ANYWHERE, of zinc causing a power loss & certainly not being a 'power eater' [ Newbomb Turk's words, not mine ].
The Penrite Oils web site has a 3 page technical paper on Zinc Myths & Legends. It talks about zinc providing a glass like protective film. Push a piece of steel across a glass plate & then push the same steel piece across a sheet of emery. Which one do you think absorbs more 'power'?

If zinc really did cost power, it would be a hot topic everywhere.....not just in one person's head.

And then there is common sense......

1000ppm is a common proportion of zinc that is added to oil [ sometimes more, sometimes less ]. That is 0.1% of the fill. Not 1%, not 10%, 0.1%!!!
Do you really think that 0.1% of anything in oil is going to be a 'power eater'????
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You have a phone don't you? Use it. Call someone and talk to them because it's evident you can't do internet research.

BTW, did you buy the SAE paper or just read the abstract?

BTW, did you bother to LOOK at the Torco link I posted? If you did you'd see how different levels of zinc are in different oils, and each of those oils is formulated differently for more or less zinc.

Zinc eats power. It's there because they haven't found anything better yet, but companies like Torco and LAT design oils that account for the power loss.

And lets not forget you can't get that in a 10-12 dollar quart of oil. In fact, last time I checked there is only 2 sources for oil soluble liquid moly in the world. And there is more than one oil soluble liquid moly available.

Seems you have a lot to learn. Or not because ignorance is bliss.
 
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Bewy said:
As for links about zinc.
The link in post #94 says nothing definitive. Words like 'may', 'some', 'suggested' are hardly a definitive conclusion.
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That's because what you read is just a six sentence abstract of a 14 page paper. You haven't read the book, just the summary on the dust jacket. You have to buy the paper to get the detailed information.

That Penrite paper is probably very good. In the '80s, Pennzoil published a very nice booklet titled Motor Oil Myths. I gave away a lot of those. I wish I still had one. They were written to correct common misconceptions in a way that didn't insult the customer. Telling your customer he's a dumbass is a good way to assure you'll never sell him another drop of oil. It didn't address friction qualities of ZDDP. 99.99% of people couldn't care less.

Lake Speed Jr is a knowledgeable guy. He's engaging and personable. While informative, his videos are made to generate views so he gets paid. I've heard he's responsive. Why don't you write to him and ask for his opinion? Be sure to reference SAE paper 962036. Also be sure to tell him you haven't read it.
 
Lots of opinions here. I run Amsoil Dominator 10W-50 in my mini-stock flat tappet engine. No issues at all. For my built 340 Dart Sport with a solid cam street car I run the Amsoil 10W-40 Z-Rod with the zinc.
 
NB Turk,
You better contact Lucas Oil company & tell them they got it wrong.
While still looking for something on the net that proves zinc is a power eater [ found NOTHING ], I came across a Lucas advert that claims because it has MORE zinc in it, it INCREASES power...because it reduces friction.....
 
S'cuder.

You sound like a very sensible guy. I am sure Lake Speed is very knowledgeable. I don't want an opinion, I want to see a test that compares the same oil with & without zinc in it. Then the result is fact, not opinion.
 
so if this is my choice: loosing 5 hp vs having the engine last 20,000 more miles, I'll pick the more miles... bring on the zinc! I've been using Penn Grade in all my motors since the whole zinc thing came to light.
 
str12-340 said:
so if this is my choice: loosing 5 hp vs having the engine last 20,000 more miles, I'll pick the more miles... bring on the zinc! I've been using Penn Grade in all my motors since the whole zinc thing came to light.
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What makes you think you need to give up any power to get extended engine life?

Saying **** like that tells me you haven't done your homework.
 
Bewy said:
NB Turk,
You better contact Lucas Oil company & tell them they got it wrong.
While still looking for something on the net that proves zinc is a power eater [ found NOTHING ], I came across a Lucas advert that claims because it has MORE zinc in it, it INCREASES power...because it reduces friction.....
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LOL. I've met Forest and Charlotte Lucas. Both very nice people. Their oil is a couple of decades behind everything else.

But damn, they sure know how to advertise.

Zinc EATS power. Rather than argue, why not test it??

I can tell you why YOU won't do it and that's because you don't want the truth. You want to argue and then demand some proof, none of which will shut your mouth.

Go test it yourself.
 
Newbomb Turk - I have a variety of tests (some that may include oil, or not) that I could suggest to you at this point but we like to keep things friendly here... :lol:
 
str12-340 said:
Newbomb Turk - I have a variety of tests (some that may include oil, or not) that I could suggest to you at this point but we like to keep things friendly here... :lol:
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Post it up. I have no friends here. If you think you know something by all means say it.

The fact that you said you’d give up 5 hp for extended engine life hints that you don’t know what you think you know.

Let’s hear it. Don’t be shy.
 
I've done lots of reading on oils and additives and the conclusion I come to is once a flat tappet cam and lifters are broken in, you can run a standard off the shelf oil and not the high zinc stuff. As has been stated in this thread, ALL motor oil has ZDDP. It has to. It's my opinion, wrong right or otherwise that once a cam and lifters are broken in the extra ZDDP is no longer required......but I still run some anyway for good measure.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I've done lots of reading on oils and additives and the conclusion I come to is once a flat tappet cam and lifters are broken in, you can run a standard off the shelf oil and not the high zinc stuff. As has been stated in this thread, ALL motor oil has ZDDP. It has to. It's my opinion, wrong right or otherwise that once a cam and lifters are broken in the extra ZDDP is no longer required......but I still run some anyway for good measure.
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Zinc isn't just for cam and lifter wear. It's also for piston rings, exhaust valves, valve springs and anything else that rubs together (not fluid lubricated parts).

I've seen an oil change make 18-20 HP. That was from 10w40 VR-1 to Torco SR5-R 5w40. When you see those kind of power gains you see that just because the engine is living doesn't make it happy.

Cheap oil isn't cheap and good oil is worth every penny.

It's sad in 2024 this is even in question. Buying oil at the local parts house or buying the cheapest **** you can find on the web is bad policy.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Zinc isn't just for cam and lifter wear. It's also for piston rings, exhaust valves, valve springs and anything else that rubs together (not fluid lubricated parts).

I've seen an oil change make 18-20 HP. That was from 10w40 VR-1 to Torco SR5-R 5w40. When you see those kind of power gains you see that just because the engine is living doesn't make it happy.

Cheap oil isn't cheap and good oil is worth every penny.

It's sad in 2024 this is even in question. Buying oil at the local parts house or buying the cheapest **** you can find on the web is bad policy.
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I agree. I wasn't addressing price at all.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Zinc isn't just for cam and lifter wear. It's also for piston rings, exhaust valves, valve springs and anything else that rubs together (not fluid lubricated parts).

I've seen an oil change make 18-20 HP. That was from 10w40 VR-1 to Torco SR5-R 5w40. When you see those kind of power gains you see that just because the engine is living doesn't make it happy.

Cheap oil isn't cheap and good oil is worth every penny.

It's sad in 2024 this is even in question. Buying oil at the local parts house or buying the cheapest **** you can find on the web is bad policy.
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Just got off the phone with them. They recommended the TR1R 10w30 for both Vixen and Gladys. Summit sells a case of 12 for like 139, which ain't terrible. I may go ahead and do that next payday. He said their PPM of ZDDP was 1800.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Just got off the phone with them. They recommended the TR1R 10w30 for both Vixen and Gladys. Summit sells a case of 12 for like 139, which ain't terrible. I may go ahead and do that next payday. He said their PPM of ZDDP was 1800.
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That’s a great oil and the price isn’t a ball busting 22 bucks a quart.

EDIT: 23.50 per quart for the oil I use. dammit up another buck and a half a quart.
 
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