Alterkation question. .....
I have an Alter-k-tion car and I have had many torsion bar cars. One reason I went with Alter-k-tion was because of the headers, rack and pinion, and brakes. At the time there were no brake upgrades for Mopar and now there is Wilwood, Viper, Baer,....
Can't beat the Flaming River rack feel. It's amazing. I will possibly be upgrading trying out the non-power "road race" rack they have.
Headers? With my engine build I needed 1-7/8" headers. You're not getting those around big torsion bars. Even the TTi 1-7/8" won't fit without skinny little dinky t-bars. I use a Hedman header that was made for drag cars without t-bars so it's a shelf header. 1-7/8 headers for t-bar cars have to be custom or modified TTi's, adding to the cost.
A benefit is that these types of suspensions do weigh less and they are easy to tune without have multiple sets of torsion bars.
There is a place for them. It's all application specific and I do think some people jump to the MustangII style suspensions often without even having the challenges I list above. At that point it's just people not looking at all the options. And that's okay. They won't be getting anything that's not unsafe or irreversible.
Now with all that being said, I have collected all the torsion bar front suspension pieces for my Valiant and , while I'm not a receipts keeper, it's expensive as hell to have a balls out torsion bar car.
-Borgeson System, BIG torsion bars, K-frame stiffening and fab, SPC UCA's, whiz bang strut rods, 11/16 tie rods, FF idler arm bearing, Hotchkis shocks, 1.25" sway bar, reinforced LCA's, Viper brakes, Modifying the TTi's for the torsion bars ....
It's not like an astronomical savings to build an equivalent performing torsion bar car especially since you've got QA1 in the game now. Matter of fact I wish I would have kept all the receipts because I bet I have more money in the Valiant's suspension than a QA1 system costs.
It's just different strokes for different folks. I like the Alter-k-tion but I wanted to build the Valiant in the Green Brick fashion and use OEM style components. I'll be racing at Auto Club in the NMCA series against a butt ton of very high dollar cars with all the heavy hitters in the suspension game. Tom Kamman (Toms Purple Valiant) races up there in his Vette now. He's killing it BTW. I would love to see the little A-body embarrass some $150k cars.
Sorry, but, there's a ton of less than fully accurate info here.
TTI's 1 7/8" headers are designed to fit with torsion bars. I have Doug's 1 5/8" on mine with 1.12" bars. They might take some dimples on the tubes, but that's a far cry from custom headers. The header clearance difference between a .87" bar and a 1.12" bar is only 1/8". That's not even a big dimple on a header tube, and that assumes the little bars touch.
Weight? It's only a big improvement if you switch from OE power steering to a manual rack. These weights are all for an HDK conversion, not an Alterkation, but the weights are likely pretty similar. Manual steering OE K to an HDK with a manual rack is only ~31 lbs savings. A Borgeson with an OE K to an HDK with power steering is only ~35 lbs savings. With an OE power steering box to an HDK with a power rack the weight savings is ~50 lbs. The only way to save big IMO is to go OE power steering to a manual rack, which is ~71 lbs. Even comparing a Borgeson to a manual rack is ~56.6 lbs. And none of that considers any change in the CG, because the coilovers put the weight higher than the torsion bars do.
All the weights of the individual components are listed here
Anybody running the RMS AlterKation? Was it really worth the cost?
You need multiple sets of coil over springs to really tune a coil-over suspension, otherwise you're mostly just changing damping and rebound and you can do that with adjustable shocks on a torsion bar system. Springs are springs, whether they're coils or bars.
Money? You can have pretty much the most expensive stuff there is for torsion bars and still save
thousands. I did. And I have stuff that you don't necessarily need (like tubular LCA's, fancy ball joints, spring sliders, etc).
RMS Alterkation w/engine mounts and without brakes - $4,995
RMS Street Lynx - $1,995
Total:
$6,990 (keep in mind this doesn't include installing the street lynx, which takes welding)
This is everything I have on my Duster. It's not the cheapest way to do it, although it's not the most expensive either (ie, complete Hotchkis TVS). I didn't spend this much, as some of the parts I listed at full price I actually bought second hand for less (like the steering box for only $300). Even leaving out the rear coilover conversion, you can do the whole car cheaper than just the front AlterK. Even with all new components priced out this is a $2,800 savings.
Front:
1.12" torsion bars from Firm Feel: $355
Bergman Autocraft SPC UCA's:$395
Bergman Autocraft Delrin LCA bushings: $80
Firm Feel greaseable LCA pins: $135
Howe Racing upper ball joints: $130
Proforged lower ball joints:$80
QA1 LCA's: $395
Hotchkis Shocks: $475
Hellwig 55905 front bar: $175
Flaming River 16:1 steering box: $610
QA1 tie rod sleeves: $50
Proforged tie rods (all): $65
Moog pitman and idler arms: $80
Adjustable PST strut rods:$300
Rear:
Hellwig 6908 rear bar: $180 (this is the Ebody bar I run with my B-body rear axle)
AFCO 20231M springs: $320
AFCO leaf spring sliders: $200
Dr. Diff 1/2" spring offset:$150
Leaf spring perches: $15
Front suspension: 3,325
Rear suspension : 865
Total:
$4,190
Coil Over vs Torsion Bar
Sorry for the distraction, but you can have an all out torsion bar car for far less money than a conversion, only give up 30 lbs of weight (with a lower CG) manual to manual, and still run "off the shelf" headers.
Not without modification. Those posts go up into the holes in the center of the stock K frame. There's nothing there on an Alterkation.
