Ive heard good things about the Ram kits.. thanks
Street clutch advice
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Dave999
Well-Known Member
Clutch material and how heavy the springs in the sprung centre are, will contribute to chatter and noise.
that clutch from mcleod is listed for anything with a v8 that will take a 10.5 inch clutch from chrysler from 1963-03...
so a 60s A Body fitted with a poly or a 273 all the way to a C body with a 383 or 440
to me this make no sense. one size can not fit all....
those springs in the sprung centre are supposed to compress somewhat on clutch take-up
can't see how they can do the job properly, for the A body and C body examples above given that one is a light weight greyhound and the other is 10 tonne Tess
one has much lower max torque engine than the other....
of course you issue could be
misaligned bellhousing
faces not parallel OR too much run out
was the block ever align bored? the bell centre line is now lower than the crank....
OR
problem with the throwout bearing....they will normally self centre as they start to spin
but only if they can... missing spring clip chewed IBR support tube etc etc
if your 40 year old clutch worked and didn't slip...... etc
Dave
that clutch from mcleod is listed for anything with a v8 that will take a 10.5 inch clutch from chrysler from 1963-03...
so a 60s A Body fitted with a poly or a 273 all the way to a C body with a 383 or 440
to me this make no sense. one size can not fit all....
those springs in the sprung centre are supposed to compress somewhat on clutch take-up
can't see how they can do the job properly, for the A body and C body examples above given that one is a light weight greyhound and the other is 10 tonne Tess
one has much lower max torque engine than the other....
of course you issue could be
misaligned bellhousing
faces not parallel OR too much run out
was the block ever align bored? the bell centre line is now lower than the crank....
OR
problem with the throwout bearing....they will normally self centre as they start to spin
but only if they can... missing spring clip chewed IBR support tube etc etc
if your 40 year old clutch worked and didn't slip...... etc
Dave
That’s the easy button.
And what I would do myself but somehow the diaphragm cover is now the de facto king because…?
I’m not sure how a cheap diaphragm cover alone made it so you didn’t have to change it out all the time.
That makes no sense.
1WildRT
Well-Known Member
What changed is the clutch lining, it has two different friction materials, one side is organic, the other is ceramic... So when you dump the clutch, slippage that a organic has after a couple months is eliminated, the clutch bites, with the straight organic disc the surface gets glazed and you get slippage.. Keep treating it hard & you'll be replacing the clutch...
I was concerned that the ceramic has going to be harsh but that definitely not the case...
I understand.
The problem isn’t the disc.
I run the most aggressive disc I can buy and my clutch doesn’t chatter.
It’s the plate load verses disc material.
Thanks Dave for the info..
When i get the car home from storage, its the first thing ill tackle.. is it possible to check the Bell housing runout with the engine installed? That is something i haven't checked.. I dont think the block was line bored.. im pretty sure the mains are std still. I can confirm when i get to machine shop papers..
1WildRT
Well-Known Member
Yes, you can check/correct it with the engine installed..., Remove the transmission/clutch, leave the flywheel.. Attch a dial indicator to the flywheel so it rotates with the crankshaft.. set it so it is reading the bore of the bell housing And rather than typing a lot, I'm gonna cheat...
Thank you.. sounds good
Dave999
Well-Known Member
yeah the key to success is taking out the plugs
having the car high enough so you can manhandle the flywheel round or get a friend to turn from the damper bolt
and obviously a good dial gauge base... strong magnet or bolt down
an articulated arm that clamps tight and has enough elbows for positioning
run round the inside of the hole for run out
run round the wide band around the hole on the back of the bell to check it isn't sitting squint
use shim stock or old feeler gauge to chock bellhousing to correct the issue then check runout
if you download any manual from my mopar.com there is a section on this for both manual cars and those with TF904/727
although its made to sound more complicated
runout
zero the gauge and start where you like
turn flywheel
find point that is the largest below zero negative value... doesn't matter what the value is just watch the pointer.
mark it on the bell with sa texter or paint pen
zero the dial gauge at that point and call it south
turn flywheel 180* to the opposite side read the positive value, this time you need to know what it is, note it down call it north. big marker on the bell and write in the number
half of that value is how far you need to move bell north......
why half? because you have measured how far off the north side is and how far off the south side is in 1 simple act of measurement i.e combined the wrongness.
if you apply half that distance to move one side away from the centre point, it brings the other with it closer.... and you end up in the middle.
you are not measuring from the centre line of the crank you a measuring a difference in position of the sides of a hole.
check what you get at the east and west points start at south and zero
do the same low and high routine, zero gauge again at the side that has the below zero value and find the above zero value at the opposite side if its less than 0.005 don't worry
if its bigger half it to get a value for a move east or west
put offset dowels in to correct the issue at the North by moving the bell in that direction, you won't get offset dowels exactly the right offset so turn them slightly to assist with east or west whichever was most positive value
number of different methods
this is the only one that make sense to me
there may be better and more precise ways....
check again should be kinda right
RobbMcPerformance Bellhousing Alignment Dowels
this is the only guy in the world (maybe
) who sells a mopar offset dowel that is a mopar offset dowel.
and not a ford offset dowel that has been incorrectly sold to you on the off chance that you will just drill or ream out the holes to force them to work
i.e he sells the correct size offset dowels to people who want their block and bell to remain standard
Dave
having the car high enough so you can manhandle the flywheel round or get a friend to turn from the damper bolt
and obviously a good dial gauge base... strong magnet or bolt down
an articulated arm that clamps tight and has enough elbows for positioning
run round the inside of the hole for run out
run round the wide band around the hole on the back of the bell to check it isn't sitting squint
use shim stock or old feeler gauge to chock bellhousing to correct the issue then check runout
if you download any manual from my mopar.com there is a section on this for both manual cars and those with TF904/727
although its made to sound more complicated
runout
zero the gauge and start where you like
turn flywheel
find point that is the largest below zero negative value... doesn't matter what the value is just watch the pointer.
mark it on the bell with sa texter or paint pen
zero the dial gauge at that point and call it south
turn flywheel 180* to the opposite side read the positive value, this time you need to know what it is, note it down call it north. big marker on the bell and write in the number
half of that value is how far you need to move bell north......
why half? because you have measured how far off the north side is and how far off the south side is in 1 simple act of measurement i.e combined the wrongness.
if you apply half that distance to move one side away from the centre point, it brings the other with it closer.... and you end up in the middle.
you are not measuring from the centre line of the crank you a measuring a difference in position of the sides of a hole.
check what you get at the east and west points start at south and zero
do the same low and high routine, zero gauge again at the side that has the below zero value and find the above zero value at the opposite side if its less than 0.005 don't worry
if its bigger half it to get a value for a move east or west
put offset dowels in to correct the issue at the North by moving the bell in that direction, you won't get offset dowels exactly the right offset so turn them slightly to assist with east or west whichever was most positive value
number of different methods
this is the only one that make sense to me
there may be better and more precise ways....
check again should be kinda right
RobbMcPerformance Bellhousing Alignment Dowels
this is the only guy in the world (maybe
) who sells a mopar offset dowel that is a mopar offset dowel.and not a ford offset dowel that has been incorrectly sold to you on the off chance that you will just drill or ream out the holes to force them to work
i.e he sells the correct size offset dowels to people who want their block and bell to remain standard
Dave
SixPaksRule
Well-Known Member
A misaligned/out of square bellhousing causes chatter. Oil contamination will also cause it.
TIR should be within 0.0025 inches. That can be a challenge to get to zero runout but it really makes a difference.
Use the roller pilot bearing assy
Solid mounts are a band-aid solution, millions of clutch mopars out there prove that.
Real torques straps aka schumaker style is the best choice, we run one on each side besides the stock style mounts.
Dual friction clutches are not needed most of the time. The 10.95 hat is the best choice if you can find one.
A borg and beck/long style pressure plate is good for high hp applications, these are not seen to often.
TIR should be within 0.0025 inches. That can be a challenge to get to zero runout but it really makes a difference.
Use the roller pilot bearing assy
Solid mounts are a band-aid solution, millions of clutch mopars out there prove that.
Real torques straps aka schumaker style is the best choice, we run one on each side besides the stock style mounts.
Dual friction clutches are not needed most of the time. The 10.95 hat is the best choice if you can find one.
A borg and beck/long style pressure plate is good for high hp applications, these are not seen to often.
jos51700
Green Bearing thread connoisseur
yeah the key to success is taking out the plugs
having the car high enough so you can manhandle the flywheel round or get a friend to turn from the damper bolt
and obviously a good dial gauge base... strong magnet or bolt down
an articulated arm that clamps tight and has enough elbows for positioning
run round the inside of the hole for run out
run round the wide band around the hole on the back of the bell to check it isn't sitting squint
use shim stock or old feeler gauge to chock bellhousing to correct the issue then check runout
if you download any manual from my mopar.com there is a section on this for both manual cars and those with TF904/727
although its made to sound more complicated
runout
zero the gauge and start where you like
turn flywheel
find point that is the largest below zero negative value... doesn't matter what the value is just watch the pointer.
mark it on the bell with sa texter or paint pen
zero the dial gauge at that point and call it south
turn flywheel 180* to the opposite side read the positive value, this time you need to know what it is, note it down call it north. big marker on the bell and write in the number
half of that value is how far you need to move bell north......
why half? because you have measured how far off the north side is and how far off the south side is in 1 simple act of measurement i.e combined the wrongness.
if you apply half that distance to move one side away from the centre point, it brings the other with it closer.... and you end up in the middle.
you are not measuring from the centre line of the crank you a measuring a difference in position of the sides of a hole.
check what you get at the east and west points start at south and zero
do the same low and high routine, zero gauge again at the side that has the below zero value and find the above zero value at the opposite side if its less than 0.005 don't worry
if its bigger half it to get a value for a move east or west
put offset dowels in to correct the issue at the North by moving the bell in that direction, you won't get offset dowels exactly the right offset so turn them slightly to assist with east or west whichever was most positive value
number of different methods
this is the only one that make sense to me
there may be better and more precise ways....
check again should be kinda right
RobbMcPerformance Bellhousing Alignment Dowels
this is the only guy in the world (maybe
and not a ford offset dowel that has been incorrectly sold to you on the off chance that you will just drill or ream out the holes to force them to work
i.e he sells the correct size offset dowels to people who want their block and bell to remain standard
Dave
I ordered the RobbMc dowels and they are very, very well made. He makes them a little long, so I am curious if I'll have to shorten them, but they're quite nice.
Also, nice writeup on the North/South analogy, I knew how to indicate it out, but that actually made it easier to reason out in my head, so I'll be using that from now on. Thanks!!
Dave999
Well-Known Member
if both bell and block have through holes no problem
if one side is blind well i guess you could cut or machine them back
id do that on the plain end that doesn't have the area to turn them...
if one side is blind well i guess you could cut or machine them back
id do that on the plain end that doesn't have the area to turn them...
jos51700
Green Bearing thread connoisseur
RobbMC makes them long on the Bell housing end so you can hacksaw em off without having to pull and reset them. It's all in the included instructions.
19DART66
Well-Known Member
I am not sure, but I think Sachs was the original manufacturer of the clutch that came in your 383 Cuda from the factory. Try seeing if they still produce the original replacement clutch for your car.
If not try piecing your own clutch together, like a McLeod 360703 10.5 2400# pressure plate and a 260120 10.5 organic disc.
Or a Ram 408 2400# Borg&Beck 10.95 pressure plate and 204? 200 series 11 inch disc. All 3 should be more than enough clutch for your car and should be very street friendly.
If not try piecing your own clutch together, like a McLeod 360703 10.5 2400# pressure plate and a 260120 10.5 organic disc.
Or a Ram 408 2400# Borg&Beck 10.95 pressure plate and 204? 200 series 11 inch disc. All 3 should be more than enough clutch for your car and should be very street friendly.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
if the peddle is high or too low you can use throw out bearing carrier of a different length to assist. in general those used as standard are longer than those used with with twin plate clutches to keep the clutch arm at a sensible position in the bellhousing window
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