440 Build Questions

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charger426

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Getting ready to start my stock bottom 440 build and I have a couple of questions. This is going to be my first build so some things are still a grey area for me. The two biggest question right now are in regards to my valve train.

How to you guys find out your pushrod length? From what I could gather I need to buy an adjust able pushrod, install some checker valve springs and use a solid lifter (even though the lifters I'm going to us are hydraulic tappets). Does that sound right to everyone?

What parts do I need to make my CAT Roller Rockers work (multiple part question)? I found a set of CAT roller rockers sitting on the shelf that my dad bought years ago. From what I've gathered the adjusters are pron to break so upgrading them is a must. I was looking at picking up a set of ARP rocker adjusters but even after filtering the thread pitch (7/16-20) I'm still left with 5 options to choose from. What other information do I need to know in order to determine the overall length needed and overall diameter?

These rockers came as rockers only, so I need to supple the shaft and other pieces needed to make them work. Is there any reason I couldn't just use the stock shafts and bolts from the iron heads I'm taking off?

Extra details in case they are needed:

78 440 block
TrickFlow Heads (TFS-61617801-C00)
Going with a Flat Tappet Cam with hydraulic lifters
 
Hughes engines sells good shafts, get an adjustable pushrod and get some rocker stand shims, shim the shafts on the head until the roller tip is as close to center of the valve as possible, then put your adjustable pushrod in the lifter and get the length so you have about 2-3 threads on the adjuster showing from the bottom of the rocker. I also think for mock up you should use a solid lifter so you don't have to worry about the lifter collapsing.

Once it's set up with a test or spring or the inner valve spring color the tip of the valve with a sharpie and turn that bad boy over a couple of times and look at the swipe pattern on the valve, you want it to be centered.

Also with those rockers make sure you have plenty of clearance between the retainer.
 
twayne24365 said:
Hughes engines sells good shafts, get an adjustable pushrod and get some rocker stand shims, shim the shafts on the head until the roller tip is as close to center of the valve as possible, then put your adjustable pushrod in the lifter and get the length so you have about 2-3 threads on the adjuster showing from the bottom of the rocker. I also think for mock up you should use a solid lifter so you don't have to worry about the lifter collapsing.

Once it's set up with a test or spring or the inner valve spring color the tip of the valve with a sharpie and turn that bad boy over a couple of times and look at the swipe pattern on the valve, you want it to be centered.

Also with those rockers make sure you have plenty of clearance between the retainer.
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That all makes sense. I guess I'll have to get checker pushrods with a cup end as I'm using adjustable roller rockers? The only place I saw that had checker pushrods with cup ends was 440source. Anything wrong with getting their checker and cut to fit pushrods?
 
So I ordered a set of Mancini racing cut to fit push rods and push rod length checker last night. I also ordered a set of Summit lifters. They were on sale for $2.40 each so I bought an extra one so I could make it a solid lifter to check valvetrain geometry.
 
Ran CAT rockers, on my small block. If those pushrods have hardened tips, I highly recommend replacing the valve lash adjustment hardware. Ran a set on my small block,along with hardened pushrods. Those hardened pushrods,turned the rocker adjustment hard ware down,like a lathe. Check out Comp or Crane ,once you find the thread size,and pitch...
 
Abodybomber said:
Ran CAT rockers, on my small block. If those pushrods have hardened tips, I highly recommend replacing the valve lash adjustment hardware. Ran a set on my small block,along with hardened pushrods. Those hardened pushrods,turned the rocker adjustment hard ware down,like a lathe. Check out Comp or Crane ,once you find the thread size,and pitch...
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Good to hear someone that actually had good luck with CAT rockers. I was looking at picking up a set of ARP rocker adjusters but even after filtering the thread pitch (7/16-20) I'm still left with 5 options to choose from. What other information do I need to know in order to determine the overall length needed and overall diameter?
 
charger426 said:
Good to hear someone that actually had good luck with CAT rockers. I was looking at picking up a set of ARP rocker adjusters but even after filtering the thread pitch (7/16-20) I'm still left with 5 options to choose from. What other information do I need to know in order to determine the overall length needed and overall diameter?
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Order an adjustable push rod,( find the proper length).. & watch this...https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...MuMuYeIW2cBiPFuNw&sig2=O28V-W1dzdyLB7FZjNJmjA
I didn't have "good luck ,with them..".. I feel the actual rocker assembly itself, was a decent price. I found the associated hardware ( rocker shafts,adjustable hardware..) ,are the problems here.. If you are running a high lift cam ( think .550 " lift or higher,) I would look at PRW's, Crane,or Comp.. It just saves you that much more trouble, over the CAT stuff. The money spent,ten folds beats the time spent. ( Ask me how I know...)
 
I already ordered an adjustable pushrod and cut to fit pushrods for after I find the proper length. When I say "I need to know in order to determine the overall length needed and overall diameter" I'm referring to the actual adjuster bolts I'm going to replace the CAT one with.
 
charger426 said:
I already ordered an adjustable pushrod and cut to fit pushrods for after I find the proper length. When I say "I need to know in order to determine the overall length needed and overall diameter" I'm referring to the actual adjuster bolts I'm going to replace the CAT one with.
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You need to( or have your machinist measure..), the length ,thread pitch ,& diameter on the actual fasteners.. Cat's website has been down for a while, & I don't have the paper catalog anymore. It's simple measurements, any good machinist can do this...
 
Abodybomber said:
You need to( or have your machinist measure..), the length ,thread pitch ,& diameter on the actual fasteners.. Cat's website has been down for a while, & I don't have the paper catalog anymore. It's simple measurements, any good machinist can do this...
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So your saying just buy a direct replacement for the stock CAT? Thats easy enough, I already know the thread pitch, I'll just take my digital caliper and get the overall length and width. I didn't know if there was an advantage to getting one that is longer or wider than the one supplied by CAT.

Since CAT's site is down, anyone know what my valve lash should be? I'm not sure if that something that dictated by the cam manufacture or the rocker manufacture. Hydraulic flat tappet lifter...if that matters.
 
roccodart440 said:
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[email protected] and 107LSA. I'm assuming you aren't concerned with performance and just want a ratty idle sounds for car shows? This cam reminds me of the comp cams thumpr series.
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From everything I've looked at it actually performs very well. Its supposed to be designed specifically for what I'm doing with this motor. Low compression stock bottom motor.
 
Not saying it doesn't just saying you could get as much or more performance out of a different grind that would have much better manners and idle quality.

My dads cam is [email protected] and 104 LSA. Mine is [email protected] with a 112LSA. Cars make the same power. His sounds like a top fuel dragster and is misery to drive. Mine has a nice rumble and can go anywhere, anytime. My wife drives the car.

Edit, the only redeeming aspect is the LSA and the low compression. That cam will build more compression at lower RPMs. But wit that said stock cams are small duration, big LSA's. Some of the stock 440's were low compression. How low of a compression are you shooting for. If you are 9.5:1 or more with iron heads I wouldn't' be worried.
 
So from the numbers I've been able to gather my static CR should be 8.77:1. With the Aluminum TrickFlows I know I'm missing A LOT of CR. On the bright side I'll be able to run 87 octane :)

Just in case anyone was wondering Hughes did get back to me and recommended the Whiplash cam for my set up.
 
The smaller LSA might in this case help you.

That is really low compression. I'm surprised you went that low. Maybe a supercharger in your future?
 
roccodart440 said:
The smaller LSA might in this case help you.

That is really low compression. I'm surprised you went that low. Maybe a supercharger in your future?
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That's what happens when you take a 78 truck block and don't touch the bottom end lol. The pistons sit in the bore something like .130. Should be a cheap fun build with room to grow.
 
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