How difficult is a cam swap?

[ddart cart]

I know this has been gone over a lot, I have read and searched myself into more than a few headaches. My apology for the redundancy.

I would like very much to ad comp cams XE 20-745-9 ($500) or it’s hopefully cheaper equivalent to my 360 magnum. The cam is .480 intake and exhaust.

I have a 323 rear, china air gap, edl 650 thunder. Planning a 2800 stall converter.

I rebuilt 1 440, long ago, but stock cam so same springs. According to comp cams web page doing a cam and springs is very advanced and require multiple machinings per head through the process? Lots of measuring and tweaking, in the thousandths? Take apart, reassemble multiple times? Everything I’ve read, no one mentions anything about difficulty to install, yet it sounds very complex. I also couldn’t find any video of the process.

Skipping the cam upgrade will not sit well with me, and paying someone else because I can’t also is lame. Please advise. Thank you.

 

[RustyRatRod]

It's gonna be twice as tough when you have to do it twice from using crappy Comp products.

 

[junkyardhero]

any reason specifically for that cam choice?

i would strongly recommend changing sprAngs when you do the cam. you can do this operation in situ, but if the motor is unknown, then you'll need to ascertain what springs you can use. so that will require at least some disassembly and investigation.

 

[dano]

Tell us more about your 360 and your intended use of the car. A cam can make or break peoples opinions about the result. As you've seen it becomes a slippery slope of parts, tools and knowledge to do so. All cam installations should also include a degreeing of the cam and intake with the intended timing set.

 

[George Jets]

Magnum 360 has a roller cam, so you are out of the woods with flat tappet cam failures.

A simple and cost effective > is the the stock 318 roller cam that has more lift and duration than your 360 roller cam.

Interesting improvement...


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[ddart cart]

I’m not attached to comp, just whatever makes sense for my recipe. I understand cams, on a basic level only. Feel free to point out my lack, please. I am here to learn. Safe space not needed for me.

A youtube dnyo video showed the cam to give 50 hp with gains all the way through, and no loss at the bottom.
I would skip the cam if I could still get 12.5 -13.5 sec 1/4s.

Less the shorty headers, it’s a stock magnum out of a pick up.

 

[George Jets]

Stock 318 Roller Cam Pictured ^ here.

Got it at a swap meet, along with the matching roller lifters.

Score, Score....

The ready to go > 302 closed chamber heads were an added bonus on the deal.

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[ddart cart]

The intended use is making my 74 dart a 12.5 - 13.5 car that can be highway driven for cheap as I can, without sacrificing the reliability or integrity of anything.

I’ve seen the 318 magnum cam mentioned before, I wonder how it installs and what the hp increase is.

 

[George Jets]

The intended use is making my 74 dart a 12.5 - 13.5 car that can be highway driven for cheap as I can, without sacrificing the reliability or integrity of anything.

I’ve seen the 318 magnum cam mentioned before, I wonder how it installs and what the hp increase is.

Easy & Massive......

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[autopar3000]

How did this thread get to 2 hours old without someone telling him to call Oregon Cam Grinding? I wish I did that when I built my 5.9, it would have been just as good and a lot cheaper. Call them and tell them what you're up to, they'll regrind your existing cam for way cheaper than anything you can buy new.

If you upgrade the cam in a Magnum you don't want to use the factory springs. Hughes Engines catches a lot of hate around here (maybe well deserved) but they offer a spring kit (HUG 1199) that is the best way to go. They also sell a spring compressor tool that you can *apparently* use to swap the springs with the heads still on the engine. I bought one and used it with the heads off the engine, and can confirm that worked well for me.

 

[autopar3000]

Oh, and to answer the question "How difficult is a cam swap?", here are my thoughts on that.

Is the engine in the car and totally assembled? That's not fun for me at all. Aside from all the engine parts you have to remove, keep in mind you also have to pull the radiator and maybe the grille. Plus you're leaning into the engine bay the whole time. I don't know how professional mechanics do that every day.

Maybe the engine is on a stand? Way easier. A couple things to look out for either way:
Has that intake been on the engine a while? Magnums like to seize up the front intake bolts, and if you break one you're going to have a bad day. Use heat and penetrant if necessary and take your time.
Before removing the timing cover, don't forget to first remove the oil pan bolts that go into the timing cover.
Highly recommended that you buy a new high quality double roller timing chain. Don't cheap out here.

Should you degree the cam? Yes. Would I bother? No. Trust in the high quality timing chain you just bought. I usually do some cursory checks to make sure the cam timing isn't totally off. DDG just did a video where he degreed a cam and the timing set was WAY OFF, but it was a cheap offshore timing set. In that video he talks about some way to check the cam timing without doing the full degree treatment:

 

[318willrun]

The intended use is making my 74 dart a 12.5 - 13.5 car that can be highway driven for cheap as I can, without sacrificing the reliability or integrity of anything.

I’ve seen the 318 magnum cam mentioned before, I wonder how it installs and what the hp increase is.

You can get into that range with a stock 360 Magnum with the exact pieces you named if your A-body is around 3300 lbs. However, if the cam is a must, then i'd go with the Oregon cam on the mild side with Hughes spring kit. Mild as in around 216-220 @ 050 and .480-500 lift. I would like to see long tube headers, though.

 

[PROSTOCKTOM]

Anyone can change a cam. The part that really matters the most is degreeing it so it works like it should.

This is the most important part of the process.

Tom

 

[Ottmundr]

A cam swap is easy. As long as you don't have a HOA.

 

[Professor Fate]

or it’s hopefully cheaper equivalent to my 360 magnum. The cam is .480 intake and exhaust.

A simple and cost effective > is the the stock 318 roller cam that has more lift and duration than your 360 roller cam.

Less the shorty headers, it’s a stock magnum out of a pick up.

I’ve seen the 318 magnum cam mentioned before, I wonder how it installs and what the hp increase is.

Okay, a few comments and clarifications are in order here- I sense some misunderstandings developing.
The owner has a 5.9 Magnum.
The "stock" 318 cam being referred to is from the 318 LA roller motor, not the 5.2 (318) Magnum cam. The LA 318 roller did have slightly hotter specs than it's LA360 counterpart, but the icing on the cake is that the LA 318 is spec'ed at the LA's 1.5:1 rocker ratio; when used in a Magnum it will operate with a 1.6:1 ratio, an additional nice little increase.
The caveat: The roller LA cams are all "long nose" cams, i.e. they are designed to be capable of running a mechanical fuel pump, whereas the Magnums are not.
This means that when you install a long nose LA roller cam in a Magnum, you need to run the LA cam washer and eccentric whether you run a mechanical fuel pump or not- the additional depth required on the bell-shaped cup washer for a long nose cam precludes using the Magnum cup washer, which was much shallower. Failure to do so will result in substantial fore-and-aft play in the camshaft, which could have dire consequences.
Most of the TBI versions of the LA roller motors used a special extra deep cup washer for use without an eccentric, but those are scarce as hen's teeth; so the cheap-and-easy solution is to just run the LA cup and eccentric to get the proper depth.
So if you choose to go this route with the factory LA cam (or any aftermarket long-nose LA roller cam, for that matter) in your Magnum, make sure you install it with the hardware from an LA, not the Magnum; and if you get a new Magnum style cam (or have your stocker reground) use the Magnum hardware.
And don't forget to do the math with any aftermarket LA roller to find out what your actual lift figures will be in the Magnum.
And a final thought- as with any Magnum build, have your heads checked for the all-too- common head cracks before you get too involved in any upgrades or parts purchases.

 

[junkyardhero]

A cam swap is easy. As long as you don't have a HOA.

step one: close garage door
step two: place sign on door: "sex party dungeon"
step three: play music at a volume that obscures the work you are doing

if anybody knocks, you'll already be sweaty and flushed so just take off your shirt, put on your gimp mask and answer the door with one of the following statements:

1- do you have your invitation? what's the password?
2- so you wanna get in on this action?
3- hey y'all the lube delivery guy is here!

problem solved.

 

[George Jets]

It's the stock 318 Magnum roller cam that is being referred to here.

Would not make any sense to put a LA 318 cam into a 360 magnum engine.

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[Professor Fate]

It's the stock 318 Magnum roller cam that is being referred to here.

Would not make any sense to put a LA 318 cam into a 360 magnum engine.

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Reread my post-
I said the LA ROLLER 318 cam. Much better than the 5.2 Mag cam. Uses the exact same roller lifters as the Magnum.

 

[318willrun]

It's the stock 318 Magnum roller cam that is being referred to here.

Would not make any sense to put a LA 318 cam into a 360 magnum engine.

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Reread my post-
I said the LA ROLLER 318 cam. Much better than the 5.2 Mag cam. Uses the exact same roller lifters as the Magnum.

LA 318 roller was ground for 1.5 rockers. So the magnum's 1.6 rockers would give more lift to the LA cam by approximately .030.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Just because it's a roller cam certainly DOES NOT make it immune to failure. There's no way in HADES I'd use anything Comp at this point. Use it at your own peril.

 

[Professor Fate]

LA 318 roller was ground for 1.5 rockers. So the magnum's 1.6 rockers would give more lift to the LA cam by approximately .030.

Yeah, I mentioned that.

 

[Demonracer]

If you are going to buy a cam, buy the kit with the correct valve springs and you might as well get new keepers and retainers. Once you get the kit, take your heads to a "good" machine shop and have them install the springs, keepers and retainers and also set the valve heights. It "ain't" cheap, but for the life of the engine and the cam, it's worth the cubic dollars. All of us here have gone the "el cheapo" route and have learned lessons from it. We are trying to keep you from the pit falls we have endured.

 

[harrisonm]

It's gonna be twice as tough when you have to do it twice from using crappy Comp products.

Isn't it a shame that Comp has deteriorated so much? They used to be the bomb. I put an XE 268 kit (springs and all) in my 340 about 20 years ago, and it has been AWESOME!

Should you degree the cam? Yes. Would I bother? No.

I have probably installed 20 cams over the years. Sometimes in the car and sometimes during a full rebuild. I have never degreed a cam. Maybe I've been lucky, but the engines have always ran great.

 

[ddart cart]

Computing….(70’s computer sounds)…….

 

[ddart cart]

I appreciate all the detailed input, and the humor, It’s awesome.

The 5.9 Magnum engine is currently on a stand, has 70k, garage kept, synthetic oil on time, no leaks! The 318, is still in the dart, runs good for 135k.
The dart weighs 3205 with ac, but the compressor is off and staying off.

I’m not married to the cam swap, maybe I was, but if 12.5 - 13.5 is achievable without, I’ll be happy. The Magnum came with Hedman shortys on it, I figure run them until I find a deal on long tubes.

I’ll do the full gasket kit no matter what(need center sump pan still). Maybe I go with thinner head gaskets and have a little fun with a dremel on the heads (nothing fancy)? Back face valves? None of that, and save the head gaskets?