New Intake
- Thread starter Uhcoog1
- Start date
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Rat Patrol
Well-Known Member
That's insane...seriously mental!
Joe Dokes
Well-Known Member
Clearly you WON'T be using the factory ECM. That's the Hilborn setup, right?
Looks awesome, I'd love to put that on my 6.1, but have other things to buy first.
But very happy for you.
The really cool thing is that you can tune the runner length to your exact torque peak. Simply measure from the back of the valvue to the top of the stack. The length of the tube, throttle body, and intake port combined determines when the ram effect comes into play. Ideally in a fixed runner length application you want the length to maximize the ram effect at your torque peak.
Torque Peake:
@7000 RPM = 11.85" runner
@6500 RPM = 12.93" runner
@6000 RPM = 13.78" runner
add 1.69" of runner length for each 1000 RPM LOWER your torque peak is.
Essentially what happens is that because of the valve opening and closing it creates a pulsing wave of air that moves back and forth along the runner. By tuning to a certain length you can time that pulse (the wave moving toward the valve) at your torque peak, greatly increasing the torque of your motor.
Since you are no longer using the stock cam, and you have moved power band up the RPM and the corresponding torque peak up as well, using a slightly shorter intake runner length (a shorter than stock ram tube) will enhance your new torque curve. In other words, measure your stock 6.1L Hemi intakes runner length and select a ram tube slightly shorter than that.
I've noticed that a lot of Gen III Hemi crate motors have dyno numbers in the 550 range, yet this is with Hemi heads that flow 350 CFM, long tube headers, and a bunch of other go fast parts. These engines should easily be putting out 600 naturally aspirated HP, why do they fall short? I'd argue that the long runner length of the stock (even ported stock) 6.1L intake becomes a liability.
Anyways, I'm quite happy for you best of luck with your project.
Regards,
Joe Dokes
Looks awesome, I'd love to put that on my 6.1, but have other things to buy first.
But very happy for you.
The really cool thing is that you can tune the runner length to your exact torque peak. Simply measure from the back of the valvue to the top of the stack. The length of the tube, throttle body, and intake port combined determines when the ram effect comes into play. Ideally in a fixed runner length application you want the length to maximize the ram effect at your torque peak.
Torque Peake:
@7000 RPM = 11.85" runner
@6500 RPM = 12.93" runner
@6000 RPM = 13.78" runner
add 1.69" of runner length for each 1000 RPM LOWER your torque peak is.
Essentially what happens is that because of the valve opening and closing it creates a pulsing wave of air that moves back and forth along the runner. By tuning to a certain length you can time that pulse (the wave moving toward the valve) at your torque peak, greatly increasing the torque of your motor.
Since you are no longer using the stock cam, and you have moved power band up the RPM and the corresponding torque peak up as well, using a slightly shorter intake runner length (a shorter than stock ram tube) will enhance your new torque curve. In other words, measure your stock 6.1L Hemi intakes runner length and select a ram tube slightly shorter than that.
I've noticed that a lot of Gen III Hemi crate motors have dyno numbers in the 550 range, yet this is with Hemi heads that flow 350 CFM, long tube headers, and a bunch of other go fast parts. These engines should easily be putting out 600 naturally aspirated HP, why do they fall short? I'd argue that the long runner length of the stock (even ported stock) 6.1L intake becomes a liability.
Anyways, I'm quite happy for you best of luck with your project.
Regards,
Joe Dokes
Thanks for all the compliments, guys!
There is supposed to be a gain. Southern hot rod did a dyno test with a Hilborn set up vs a stock 6.1 intake, and showed a 60 hp gain. Though, I'll take those results with a grain of salt! I searched far and wide for other results, and found a guy on ls1tech that swapped from a FAST 102 to a Hilborn set up and added 15 rwhp and torque across the curve. That's sounds a little more realistic. I'm guessing where a ported 6.1 intake will give you ~15-25 hp gain, maybe the Hilborn will add another 15. Kind of an expensive set up, though!
Megasquirt 3X engine management.
I've wondered about the lack of power up top as well. At least on a dyno, anyway. The LX cars typically outrun their dyno numbers on a drag strip. In the LSx world, you can get to 500 rwhp with a radical 5.7; no one has done that in the hemi world, at least not in the LX cars. The fastest 5.7 I know of put down ~500 fhp, and runs 11.3's at ~121? in a new challenger at +3000 DA. However, Jerry at Sharadon has put down 550 fhp with a 5.7 with a drag pak manifold and scaling fuel trim per cylinder for the last 50 hp.
Do you know of anyone with the pipe max program? Or the actual formulas for determining the 2nd and 3rd harmonics? I'm guessing you're estimating the second harmonic there? Are your numbers specific to a 5.7 or 6.1? Thanks for helping on this- I haven't found the formulas, or much info at all really.
Does anyone have the runner length? I'd be curious to hear the differences. I can probably measure the 6.1 intake before I sell it.
There is supposed to be a gain. Southern hot rod did a dyno test with a Hilborn set up vs a stock 6.1 intake, and showed a 60 hp gain. Though, I'll take those results with a grain of salt! I searched far and wide for other results, and found a guy on ls1tech that swapped from a FAST 102 to a Hilborn set up and added 15 rwhp and torque across the curve. That's sounds a little more realistic. I'm guessing where a ported 6.1 intake will give you ~15-25 hp gain, maybe the Hilborn will add another 15. Kind of an expensive set up, though!
Clearly you WON'T be using the factory ECM. That's the Hilborn setup, right?
Looks awesome, I'd love to put that on my 6.1, but have other things to buy first.
But very happy for you.
The really cool thing is that you can tune the runner length to your exact torque peak. Simply measure from the back of the valvue to the top of the stack. The length of the tube, throttle body, and intake port combined determines when the ram effect comes into play. Ideally in a fixed runner length application you want the length to maximize the ram effect at your torque peak.
Torque Peake:
@7000 RPM = 11.85" runner
@6500 RPM = 12.93" runner
@6000 RPM = 13.78" runner
add 1.69" of runner length for each 1000 RPM LOWER your torque peak is.
Essentially what happens is that because of the valve opening and closing it creates a pulsing wave of air that moves back and forth along the runner. By tuning to a certain length you can time that pulse (the wave moving toward the valve) at your torque peak, greatly increasing the torque of your motor.
Since you are no longer using the stock cam, and you have moved power band up the RPM and the corresponding torque peak up as well, using a slightly shorter intake runner length (a shorter than stock ram tube) will enhance your new torque curve. In other words, measure your stock 6.1L Hemi intakes runner length and select a ram tube slightly shorter than that.
I've noticed that a lot of Gen III Hemi crate motors have dyno numbers in the 550 range, yet this is with Hemi heads that flow 350 CFM, long tube headers, and a bunch of other go fast parts. These engines should easily be putting out 600 naturally aspirated HP, why do they fall short? I'd argue that the long runner length of the stock (even ported stock) 6.1L intake becomes a liability.
Anyways, I'm quite happy for you best of luck with your project.
Regards,
Joe Dokes
Megasquirt 3X engine management.
I've wondered about the lack of power up top as well. At least on a dyno, anyway. The LX cars typically outrun their dyno numbers on a drag strip. In the LSx world, you can get to 500 rwhp with a radical 5.7; no one has done that in the hemi world, at least not in the LX cars. The fastest 5.7 I know of put down ~500 fhp, and runs 11.3's at ~121? in a new challenger at +3000 DA. However, Jerry at Sharadon has put down 550 fhp with a 5.7 with a drag pak manifold and scaling fuel trim per cylinder for the last 50 hp.
Do you know of anyone with the pipe max program? Or the actual formulas for determining the 2nd and 3rd harmonics? I'm guessing you're estimating the second harmonic there? Are your numbers specific to a 5.7 or 6.1? Thanks for helping on this- I haven't found the formulas, or much info at all really.
Does anyone have the runner length? I'd be curious to hear the differences. I can probably measure the 6.1 intake before I sell it.
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