Ring and ring gap questions

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Dartfreak75

Dartfreak75

Restore it, Dont part it!
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I know I'm still harping about this bear with me please.
Ok so I got two sets of rings one for the .030 pistons that I didnt use because the block didnt clean up and the + .060 rings that came in the kit with the new pistons. They are an identical set both hastings same instructions same everything one is for +.03 and the other is for +.06 the .03 came in individual bags one for the top ring one for the 2nd one and the oil rings. The bags are labeled first 2nd and oil so out of curiosity I opened the up and the top ring is the one with the moly coating on the top and bottom and steel on the bore edge. And the 2nd ring is fully coated with a bevel and dot. My .060 did not come like this they where all just in a box with no 1st or 2nd orentiaton included. Should the bevel ring be the 2nd ring on this set as well?
My 2nd question is how much ring gap is too much gap? I got this crazy idea instead of filing my 60 rings why not just use the 30 rings. They are the same in every way I have measured and held them together and they are identical other than the "built in gap" which on a 60 over bore is quite a bit more than a 30 bore which is perfect. But they are quite a bit large in the gap department. I'm getting right at .1 I am shooting for .033 so they are quite a bit larger. Is too big a gap a issue tho? As long as they are offset properly?
 
That's too big of a gap you will suffer from sever blow by and low compression. The factory service manual is your friend, use it! 65'
 
Plymouth 65 said:
That's too big of a gap you will suffer from sever blow by and low compression. The factory service manual is your friend, use it! 65'
Click to expand...
That's kinda what I was thinking too but I figured it never hurts to ask.
 
Hypernetic pistons like Keith Black require specific ring gaps also. I typically stagger the ring gaps @ 120 deg. each. 65'
 
Also, remember dots up when installing the rings on the pistons! 65'
 
I use file fit rings, the instructions usually call for .00X" clearance per inch of bore.

For example. .0045 X 4.04" = .018" end gap
 
justinp61 said:
I use file fit rings, the instructions usually call for .00X" clearance per inch of bore.

For example. .0045 X 4.04" = .018" end gap
Click to expand...
Yea I'm using kb and their gap factor is .008 so it would be .032 and and some change
 
The rings are different.
The diff between .030 and .060 measured in a 'circle' is .015 a side.
.015 a side diff between 2 circles isnt really that visible, but its there... and the moment you do some dumb **** like stick the smaller 'fancier' ring in the larger hole...its going to use oil like a backdoor ***** going for the world record.

Use the .060 ring, file it to required gap.
Read more, and if you never read about people doing it... its because they dont. It's a mistake.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
The rings are different.
The diff between .030 and .060 measured in a 'circle' is .015 a side.
.015 a side diff between 2 circles isnt really that visible, but its there... and the moment you do some dumb **** like stick the smaller 'fancier' ring in the larger hole...its going to use oil like a backdoor ***** going for the world record.

Use the .060 ring, file it to required gap.
Read more, and if you never read about people doing it... its because they dont. It's a mistake.
Click to expand...
Thanks bud! I was waiting for you to answer. I was kinda wondering about that. What about the top ring no bevel or no bevel? I'm assuming the beveled ring goes in the 2nd groove since the other kit is labeled that way.
I have the type of mind that I always am wondering and thinking and stuff like this is how I learn. To me there is no one way I'm always wanting to learn why and why not! Not just dont! I want to know why you dont! Your answer is perfect and it makes sense! I appreciate it as always.
 
Bought a 47 Plym. coupe fixer upper that had a 400 in it. Used a lot of oil. Passed Air Care anyway. Pulled the engine and found the oil problem was mainly a used valley pan gasket. The rings all had at least .125 in. end gap at the bottom of the bore. All end gaps were facing the front, same direction. The point is IMO that end gap is not very critical for a driver. Not to say that i would do that myself.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Thanks bud! I was waiting for you to answer. I was kinda wondering about that. What about the top ring no bevel or no bevel? I'm assuming the beveled ring goes in the 2nd groove since the other kit is labeled that way.
I have the type of mind that I always am wondering and thinking and stuff like this is how I learn. To me there is no one way I'm always wanting to learn why and why not! Not just dont! I want to know why you dont! Your answer is perfect and it makes sense! I appreciate it as always.
Click to expand...


If a ring is beveled, the bevel goes up. If you have a moly top ring it’s easy to see that and then the bevel or dot if it has one goes up.

I haven’t seen a moly second ring in coons age (that’s pretty damned long) so it’s probably plain cast iron (or ductile iron if the ring set was fairly expensive) so the bevel or dot will go up.

If there is no bevel or dot on the second ring it goes in either way.
 
Plymouth 65 said:
I typically stagger the ring gaps @ 120 deg. each. 65'
Click to expand...
i space the top and second ring gaps 180 degrees apart for least blow by with the gaps in line with the piston pins away from the thrust faces. the upper and lower oil ring segments i set 180 apart with the upper most 180 from the second compression ring. the oil ring expander i line up with a thrust face so it's halfway between the upper and lower segments. with the rings set like this any oil from below or blowby from above has to travel 180 degrees round the piston to meet the next gap.
neil.
 
yellow rose said:
If a ring is beveled, the bevel goes up. If you have a moly top ring it’s easy to see that and then the bevel or dot if it has one goes up.

I haven’t seen a moly second ring in coons age (that’s pretty damned long) so it’s probably plain cast iron (or ductile iron if the ring set was fairly expensive) so the bevel or dot will go up.

If there is no bevel or dot on the second ring it goes in either way.
Click to expand...
So the ring that has the bevel will be the first ring (top)
 
I emailed hastings this morning I just checked my email they cleared it up for me and now I feel stupid haha but I will share it here just incase someone else out there dont know and is having the same problem. The ring that is solid black on all sides is the cast ring. And the the ring with the gray surface on the outside is the moly ring. I just assumed the solid black ring was the moly ring. Lol too many years moly coating bullets I guess.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Yea I'm using kb and their gap factor is .008 so it would be .032 and and some change
Click to expand...

Yup. That's what I would run, in fact, I would use the nitrous spec just to be on the safe side.
 
Ring gaps cannot be judged at static as installed. Those KB hypers expand a good bit, so just run what they recommend (nitrous spec IF you want) and it will be fine. You lose no compression because as soon as they expand, the ring gaps close up to their proper spec.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
The rings are different.
The diff between .030 and .060 measured in a 'circle' is .015 a side.
.015 a side diff between 2 circles isnt really that visible, but its there... and the moment you do some dumb **** like stick the smaller 'fancier' ring in the larger hole...its going to use oil like a backdoor ***** going for the world record.

Use the .060 ring, file it to required gap.
Read more, and if you never read about people doing it... its because they dont. It's a mistake.
Click to expand...

hmmm......goin for the world record with "what"? or do we really wanna know? LMAO
 
Ok on to phase two of my question. What about the 2nd ring on the kbs do they need to be gapped with the .008 factor also? In the instructions it doesnt mention the 2nd ring only the top ring.
 
KB does indeed give 2nd ring specs. You ain't lookin hard enough. lol

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/KB%20Installation%20Instructions%206-20.pdf
 
Well at .004 I'm good that's .01624 and I'm at .018 now on the 2nd ring I'm gonna let that one fly!
 
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