273 time to 'fish or cut bait'...

[65Cudafix]

FABO,
Just a quick refresher to bring everyone up to speed on what I'm talking about here.

Bought a 1965 Barracuda

when I retired because, well, why not???

I have absolutely not knowledge or experience with auto repair or restoration, much like everything else, but that never stops ME (to be candid, it does slow me down considerably). The 'Cuda is Canadian, but thats another story...

Anyway, its rusted in places that gentlemen don't discuss in public, so I decided a 'parts car' might be in order...

Cuba #2 is a '65 V8 Commando, without the engine, (long story...buy at least it's American) So I drove 2000 miles to get it and bring it home. Since it has 4 speed and (relatively) no rust, I got to thinking maybe I should build THIS and use Cuda#1 as the 'parts car', why not Cuda#1 is Canadian after all.. Well as I said, Cuda#2 has no engine, and Cuda#1 has a 'stock' 273 that runs, but that's all... Can I really put a stock 2v, 273 in a car with Commando badges? What if my friends found out? I'd have to keep my hood down at Car Shows..

Then just the other day, I was on Craigslist eating pork rinds, when I found an engine - 273 with a 340 4v intake for $100. I hear that '65 Cuda's have problems relating to later year intakes and choices to upgrade to a 4v carb are few and far between... And who has ever heard of 340 intake on a '65 - 273??? Thought I'd like to see that!!! So I drive across the state to see it... I mean $100, right??

Sure enough it has a blue intake and the engine is red (I have no idea what a '340' intake looks like or how it differs from a 273, other than the 4 barrel, but 340's are blue and 273's are red right?) so I buy the damn thing, after the PO (prior owner) shows me it ain't froze up... I pull the intake and the heads and take the heads to the machinist to make sure they aren't cracked (He will also clean them and put in 'hardened seats' and promised to 'port' them for me). Then he tells me that the valves are in bad shape (see photo) and they should be replaced.

Now some of you may be asking how the PO mounted a 340 intake on a 1965 273? Good question, I've some photo's of how he 'whittled' out the bolt holes -

Well you get the idea. Is that allowed? Will it damage the seal? I suppose if the PO got it to work, so can I...

Here, finally, is my question: Since I've decided to make a 'frankenstein' commando 273 engine how do I go about it? I ordered the book -

But it hasn't arrived yet, so I don't know nothing, and I hope you will help.

What I want to do is build an affordable driver that uses pump gas and will wear out the tires every few hundred miles. Something to drive cross country on state highways. I'm thinking 0-60 time (to get away from F***ing stop signs and lights, running 60-80 for most the day without getting tired, and milage as good as my pick-up truck (F150) would be most important. Passing Chevys would be a big plus also...

My uneducated guess is: use the 340 intake, refinish the heads (have the valve seats hardened, port it out a bit, but use 'stock' valves and rockers), get some 'domed' (Not doomed) piston heads, a high performance cam, some new freeze plugs, use the stock exhaust manifolds and call it good (we'll talk carb in another thread).

I see that Rock Auto, one of my new best friends, has a high performance cam for $60... it is an Engine Tech ES1089 - Stage 1- using flat followers .050" (whatever that means) - duration 204/214 - cam lift .281/.296 - Lobe Center 108/116. Is this the right cam, it's the only one listed, can I use 'stock valves' and my 'stock' adjustable rocker setup with it? Or, should I see if I can go with bigger valves and new rockers. This is still a 273 is bigger valves wise or is it like kissing you sister, I mean it might be fun, but doesn't get you anywhere... Anywhere you'd want to go anyway...

I know there are numerous other issues, electronic ignition, carb, exhaust... but there is only so much room here on this thread and I fear I may loose your attention if I ramble on...

Please FABO , let me know -
Can I use this 340 intake?,
Do I upgrade to the RockAuto CAM or is there a better one (for not much more money)?
Can/should I use 'stock' valves and rockers or does a new cam mean new valves and rockers?
Where do I find the domed pistons (I'll put an ad on 'wanted parts' here on FABO but realize I'll probably have to go aftermarket) and if not 'stock commando' which are best?

Any tips on what to watch out for and how to keep costs down would also be helpful...

Thanks FABO, your the best, I'll be waiting to hear from you -

65Cudafix

 

[yellow rose]

Your new best friend is NOT the place to buy a cam. There are many good cam grinders who cam grind you a cam that will be correct for your application.

As long as the intake seals up, slotting the holes isn't going to hurt.

 

[yellow rose]

BTW, are you sure those aren't 340/360 heads. Sure looks like an open chamber head to me. Maybe it's just the picture.

 

[65Cudafix]

Your new best friend is NOT the place to buy a cam. There are many good cam grinders who cam grind you a cam that will be correct for your application.

As long as the intake seals up, slotting the holes isn't going to hurt.

Yellow rose,

Thanks, I don't believe that MY machinist is up to the task of grinding a cam. But, I'm sure shipping wouldn't be much... what do you suppose that would cost me?

Thanks again,

65Cudafix

 

[yellow rose]

Yellow rose,

Thanks, I don't believe that MY machinist is up to the task of grinding a cam. But, I'm sure shipping wouldn't be much... what do you suppose that would cost me?

Thanks again,

65Cudafix

I dot recall what I paid for my last cam. I never consider summit brand, Jegs brand or an auto parts store brand when getting a cam.

I use Jim at Racer Brown and Danny at Cam Motion.
I call them with all the specs and then we have a long discussion about why I try and run square lobes (inside joke).

Anyway, I'd rather see you spend a bit more on cam and get one ground for what you are doing rather than grab something off the shelf.

BTW...does that thing have adjustable rocker arms on it?

 

[Syleng1]

65cudafix-

Here is the situation as I see it. You are running 1965ish technology so breakdowns happen it part of the hobby. Running mis matched stuff will add to to your head aches unless it was designed for it. Not sure of the intake delema but as long as the gaskets seal and the ports dont leak vacuums you should be good.

As for any discount house such as the Internet place you claim is a new best friend, they are not bad but you (sounds like my mom here) can do better. If a product is less than 1/2 cost.... makes you wonder about "why?"

Good luck and keep us posted. These cars are easy with simple mechanical experience. Just take your time and do your research. Here is a picture of the 66 fish I'm building now. Build a plan for the finished product before you start otherwise the project is 20 times harder. Don't magazine build the drive train, figure out what you want and how to achieve that goal. 4.56 gears will beat the bow ties but won't do 80mph all day unless you have a good overdrive transmission set up. Stay focused and positive. There are plenty of people

on this board that can help and plenty will give you opinions only.

Good luck,
Joe

 

[SSVDP]

Sounds like you have the major parts to make two cars.
You should focus on one, sounds like the four speed car is the better candidate.
I would buy a cam that someone else has had a good experience with. See ToolManMikes 273 build. The part numbers on the heads and intake would help a lot.
I'm not clear on your goals. An early Barracuda can be a really nice quick fun car that can be driven comfortably at freeway speeds. But if you are looking forward to also beating a 2017 Corvette in a race ( any race) that's a BIG task.
Hope this helps.

 

[65Cudafix]

BTW, are you sure those aren't 340/360 heads. Sure looks like an open chamber head to me. Maybe it's just the picture.

Yellow Rose,

Them is my 273 heads, intake is the 340...

65Cudafix

 

[65Cudafix]

I dot recall what I paid for my last cam. I never consider summit brand, Jegs brand or an auto parts store brand when getting a cam.

I use Jim at Racer Brown and Danny at Cam Motion.
I call them with all the specs and then we have a long discussion about why I try and run square lobes (inside joke).

Anyway, I'd rather see you spend a bit more on cam and get one ground for what you are doing rather than grab something off the shelf.

BTW...does that thing have adjustable rocker arms on it?

Yellow Rose,

Did I mention the all I know is what people tell me, and people lie... thus I don't REALLY know anything, but I believe they are adjustable. I think they had little hex nuts on the top, but I dropped them off with the heads. Machinist chewed me out and said it'll cost extra cause more work for him. I'll check when I get them back. Shouldn't stock 273 heads have adjustable rockers?

65 Cudafix

 

[toolmanmike]

Just to be sure, what are the numbers on the heads? Yes as mentioned, think about what you need and form a plan. Did the car you want to build come with a Commando engine? Are you interested in restoring it to original or do you want to build a 4 barrel engine just because you own one. If you are not restoring the car you could put in a 318/340/360 if you want more power. They all cost about the same to build if you are going to freshen one up. The 273 may cost a slight bit more because of the harder to get pistons. Really there is nothing wrong with a 273 unless you crave lots of tire smoking power (and along with that "usually" comes worse gas mileage.) My 273-4bbl. with a 4 speed and 3:23 rear gear is fun to drive and gets 18-19mpg on the highway. Click the link below for my 273 build thread.

 

[toolmanmike]

Oh by the way, the 64 and 65 273 heads came with smaller bolts for the intake and at a different angle. That's why the PO hogged out the intake holes. 66 and newer small blocks are the same bolt size and angle.

 

[65Cudafix]

Oh by the way, the 64 and 65 273 heads came with smaller bolts for the intake and at a different angle. That's why the PO hogged out the intake holes. 66 and newer small blocks are the same bolt size and angle.

Toolmanmike,

'Commando' car came without engine. Feel if it's badged it should be close, at least. $100 engine with 4v intake for a '65, thought I'd give it a try, I have a lead on a 318, but that's future 65Cudafix's problem. Bought

the book, but it ain't here yet.

Photo of what I believe could be part# for intake.

Saw your thread on 273 build, what cam did you use? How's it working out?

65Dartman brought up an interesting point. If I need to get cylinders bored, will stock pistons work? Doesn't/can't rings compensate for minimal bore size?

Thanks,
65Cudafix

 

[1966DDart]

I pull the intake and the heads and take the heads to the machinist to make sure they aren't cracked (He will also clean them and put in 'hardened seats' and promised to 'port' them for me). Then he tells me that the valves are in bad shape (see photo) and they should be replaced.

With just that little bit of info...I'd seriously be asking myself, "What's the end goal?" I have not doubt your machinist can work the heads over for you but, labor and parts is not cheap! I'd bet that the valve guides are shot too. Now you are looking at cleaning the heads, checking for cracks, new valves, new guides, install seats, new springs, a valve job, and probably shaving them a little to clean up the surface. In short...you are going to have a LOT of money just the heads (I'd guess at a bare minimum $800+)...and that's not counting what he may charge for porting. Cheap valves for old 273 heads...use 305 Chebby valves (1.84/1.50 and 11/32 stem)

Pistons...Hughes does show they still have the Egge 4-barrel cast pistons...
Hughes Engines

...but, rings are getting harder and harder to find in 3.625" and 3.655". And intake wise you are VERY limited...without modifying the bolt holes on the manifold you use. EVEN if you find a factory intake...you are limited as to what carb will bolt to it. Your 273 rocker arms should be adjustable, should be reusable, and will take a beating.

Don't get me wrong...I'm a 273 fan myself BUT, if you are just wanting it to play with...I'd go 318. For starters, you get 45 extra cubes...16.5% more = more power all over. The 318 is only 22 cubes off of a 340! Blocks are CHEAP and even close at hand..

318 motor

Decent pistons are much easier to get these days! Wiseco makes a forged set for around $500, comes with rings and pins. ICON has a set for $650....or KB Hypers are $300-400. Easier to find intakes. Rods...just get a set of Scat I-beams with the basic bolts...no need for ARP2000's since you'll already be going from 3/8 factory bolts to 7/16" in the Scats. Those can be found for $350 or less...just a few dollars more than refurbing your old rods AAAAND they'll save you some weight. Heads...

IMMENGINES.COM

the LA version is what you'll need and those should handle ANYTHING the 318 will need! They might look like they cost a lot...but, have your machinist price out the work, and all new parts, on the old 273 heads, it'll be a lot closer than you think!

The only really noticeable difference on the outside of the 273 and 318 is going to be the intake bolt angles. Reuse the timing chain cover, valve covers, etc., from the 273.

Lastly...the crank. The 273 will have a forged crank and the 318 is cast. If you are going with a 4-speed, it's an even swap and I'd use the 273 crank in the 318 build. If you even remotely think you might switch to an automatic down the road...have the machine shop enlarge the register on the back of the crankshaft to match that of the 318. The early 273's used a smaller register and it makes it harder to find a torque converter.

 

[nm9stheham]

Some corrections: Later 273's come with CAST cranks; the exact same ones as the 318's. '68 273 had cast cranks for sure and had the larger register (hole) in the back of the crank. Unless you have a crank part number, OP, we can't say for sure if it is cast or forged. But it doesn't matter; either will work FINE for your level of torque and HP desired.

ROCKERS: IIRC: Hipo 273's had adjustable rockers. Low 273's performance ones of ALL years had stamped rockers. Having the adjustables is nice.

Heads: Those look like the 2 BBL heads. PLEASE tell the machinist to HOLD, go back to the shop and look for the 7 digit head casting number, along one of the ports. It may be one of these castings PN's:
Mopar Casting Numbers
I agree with Yellow Rose; those look like open chambers and are likely to be the 675's used on 273's and 318s. With the head PN, a lot more actually GOOD info can be given to you.

CAM: Rock Auto is not your best friend for cams! We can do a TON better.

As for the suggestion on the 318 block. I agree but only if you get the right pistons. Your described application is going to need torque for those great 0-60 times (unless you want to rev the engine up to 3k each time you want to depart quickly from a stop light or stop sign), and open chamber heads with stock 318 pistons don't get you there. Either the domed Egge 273 pistons (L2222) or some KB's in a 318 block are the way to go. Then you can keep the compression up for good low RPM torque AND keep your fuel economy up too.

Stock pistons won't work in bored cylinders. No way.

 

[66fs]

The 273 will do all you want it to do. The $100 engine seems cobbled from the little I can see. The intake is a newer 360/318 intake. Not a fan of using one with the smaller 5/16 intake bolts at the early angle, but it has been done and works. The carb should be a Thermoquad or Quadrajet on that manifold. If you have the adjustable rockers, use a solid cam. All 64-67 273's had solid lifters and adjustable rockers. Have to agree with Yellow Rose. Isky E-4 or Racer Brown cam. Get the lifters and springs that go with the cam and use a good double roller timing chain. Run the 2 barrel pistons. Check the head castings first though. I thought the 273 you had was in running condition?

 

[toolmanmike]

The 273 will do all you want it to do. The $100 engine seems cobbled from the little I can see. The intake is a newer 360/318 intake. Not a fan of using one with the smaller 5/16 intake bolts at the early angle, but it has been done and works. The carb should be a Thermoquad or Quadrajet on that manifold. If you have the adjustable rockers, use a solid cam. All 64-67 273's had solid lifters and adjustable rockers. Have to agree with Yellow Rose. Isky E-4 or Racer Brown cam. Get the lifters and springs that go with the cam and use a good double roller timing chain. Run the 2 barrel pistons. Check the head castings first though. I thought the 273 you had was in running condition?

I used a Isky E4 cam in mine. It is a little bit bigger than the stock HP273 cam and is a solid lifter cam like the original. I also used the Egge L2222 hi compression pistons. Although they are advertised at 10.5/1 with a valve job, possibly new valves and thicker head gaskets you will end up with somewhere around 9.5/1 The 273 heads are very efficient. And just to correct a previous post, all 64-67 273's had solid lifter cams and adjustable rockers. Please get us the casting number off the heads. The engine build relies on which heads you use. 2 barrel and 4 barrel 273's had closed chamber heads until 1968. We need those casting numbers.

 

[toolmanmike]

Toolmanmike,

'Commando' car came without engine. Feel if it's badged it should be close, at least. $100 engine with 4v intake for a '65, thought I'd give it a try, I have a lead on a 318, but that's future 65Cudafix's problem. BoughtView attachment 1715059031 the book, but it ain't here yet.

Photo of what I believe could be part# for intake.

Saw your thread on 273 build, what cam did you use? How's it working out?

65Dartman brought up an interesting point. If I need to get cylinders bored, will stock pistons work? Doesn't/can't rings compensate for minimal bore size?

Thanks,
65Cudafix

Looks like the intake is a 1983 intake. I wouldn't use it. My parts book goes up to 1974 and isn't listed there. Looks like the date is. 3-28-83.

 

[rumblefish360]

Well, I will admit I skipped ahead and decided to post instead of reading it all.

Welcome to the fold and I would like to introduce my saying, "Your car your way!" Enjoy! We'll be here to help!

 

[AJ/FormS]

What I want to do is build an affordable driver that uses pump gas and will wear out the tires every few hundred miles. Something to drive cross country on state highways. I'm thinking 0-60 time (to get away from F***ing stop signs and lights, running 60-80 for most the day without getting tired, and milage as good as my pick-up truck (F150) would be most important. Passing Chevys would be a big plus also...

Your in over your head, with a 273. She cannot hit more than two, or maybe three, of these bases.
You really need a slightly warmed up 360, to cover them all.
The 360 with a 2400TC will pull 2.76s for mileage, comfort and reliability. It will take off really well. It will annihilate those other brands. And with a 220 or less cam, and pumped up compression, and a good tune,will surprise you with it's frugality. It costs the same to build or nearly so, and you can paint it to match the 273. Problem solved.
Yeah, I know what your thinking, but you posted too late, now you are almost married to 273 power. So you are gonna have to rethink some of your "wants". Or take your licks on selling the 273 stuff.
But I gotta tell you; I once put a 340 in a 65 longroof with a 904. It did everything on your "want" list and more. The 340 had a complete teener top-end on it including the cam. It was basically a big-bore teener.
360s are cheaper easier and better.

Of course there are some things that the 273 can do. They just can't do all the things you want it to, unless you supercharge it. but that kindof throws 2 or 3 of your targets right out the window.

 

[toolmanmike]

Your in over your head, with a 273. She cannot hit more than one of these bases.

A 360 with a o/d trans might come close.

 

[Syleng1]

Again.... "Stay focused and positive. There are plenty of people on this board that can help and plenty will give you opinions only."

If you are choosing 273 then run a 273. If you go 340 or 360 you run into risk of exhaust issues ( yes the engines are the same size BUT you need more breathing for those engines for the larger displacement) due to tight quarters. Hard selection on headers too. Only a few fit with P/S. Automatic (if you are going that route) and clearance period. 318 is a better choice over a 340 or 360 unless this car is being built for it to begin with ( larger cooling and heavier suspension to handle torque from a 360). Trust me... I was going to build a 340 for my 66 in the picture but it is too tight and i want a good driving and QUIET car as well. My 318 was dynoe-ed at 325 with the factory 273 exhaust manifolds with very few mods. (325.4hp at 4800 rpm and 380ft torque @ 3750 rpm at flywheel)
Only take on what you are comfortable doing.
Find the correct intake and adjustable rockers, if you run a dual point distributor your only going 5500 rpm anyhow. And forged pistons are only needed if have a reason... turbo or nitrous. If not high compression, its just wasted money.
That 273 if built well will fit your needs. If your machinist gave you guff over bringing in the rockers... What an as$. When you redo the valves you should always have the faces of the rockers refaced to match the tops of the valves and clean and verify the rockers are ok. Its the job of the machinist to verify the rockers and refresh them for you.
Time for a new machinist . Heck just taking .040" off the heads gasket surface will improve compression, remember the new gaskets require no re torque BUT the loss is thicker gaskets... less compression.


Please sit down with a pen and pencil and write down what you want from the car and go from there. Sending out the heads before you even know what you are doing is possibly wasting money (my opinion)
You dont even know what cam you are going to use so what valve springs to put on those heads?
Good luck,
Joe

 

[65Cudafix]

The 273 will do all you want it to do. The $100 engine seems cobbled from the little I can see. The intake is a newer 360/318 intake. Not a fan of using one with the smaller 5/16 intake bolts at the early angle, but it has been done and works. The carb should be a Thermoquad or Quadrajet on that manifold. If you have the adjustable rockers, use a solid cam. All 64-67 273's had solid lifters and adjustable rockers. Have to agree with Yellow Rose. Isky E-4 or Racer Brown cam. Get the lifters and springs that go with the cam and use a good double roller timing chain. Run the 2 barrel pistons. Check the head castings first though. I thought the 273 you had was in running condition?

66fs,

I do have one 273 that is in running condition, but don't want to put the stock 2v in the 'Commando'. Since the engine had a 340 4 barrel intake and was $100, I thought I'd take a chance. Makes sense to use the 2 barrel pistons, someone mentioned that IF (Ha Ha!) I have to get the cylinders bored, stock pistons will be too small (?) anyway.. I have lots of issues (don't we all) but since the heads are in the shop getting cleaned up (and hopefully ported) I really should address the cam and valve questions now rather than putting them off. Hope the book gets here soon so I can work out a build sheet and not be flying by the seat of my pants, (though I typically roll that way anyway). I can't say how much it helps me to have FABO to bounce my ideas off of. I will keep in mind the Thermoquad/Quadrajet carb when I come to that bridge. Forgot to mention the double roller timing chain and electronic ignition but will install them as well in whatever build I come up with.

Haven't considered putting the 340 intake on the running 273 either, but that kind of makes sense. Though I haven't looked into that engine other than to start it a few times, Cuda#1 has it's own issues... in my uneducated mind I thought I should stick with the heads the 340 intake was used to. Can installing the jerry-rigged intake damage the heads???

Thanks for your advice on the 2 barrel pistons I will consider that, how much are the domed pistons going to help with what I want anyway.

65Cudafix

 

[65Cudafix]

I used a Isky E4 cam in mine. It is a little bit bigger than the stock HP273 cam and is a solid lifter cam like the original. I also used the Egge L2222 hi compression pistons. Although they are advertised at 10.5/1 with a valve job, possibly new valves and thicker head gaskets you will end up with somewhere around 9.5/1 The 273 heads are very efficient. And just to correct a previous post, all 64-67 273's had solid lifter cams and adjustable rockers. Please get us the casting number off the heads. The engine build relies on which heads you use. 2 barrel and 4 barrel 273's had closed chamber heads until 1968. We need those casting numbers.

Toolmanmike,

Will visit the machinist tomorrow and get the numbers off the heads, can't believe I didn't but was focused on the intake... I tried Egge's website but couldn't find pistons... I'll have to give them a call. A member has the 'stock commando' pistons but another was saying that IF I need to have the cylinder's bored stock piston's won't fit... I'll post the numbers from the heads tomorrow.

Thanks for the interest, I plan to revisit your 273 build.

65Cudafix

 

[pishta]

Modern cam will more than make up for the 9.5:1 power you'll get with Egge 4V pistons. A cylinder bore job will require oversized pistons and rings, AND a balance if the pistons are not replacement weights. 273's liked to rev, thats where the power was. They used the same heads as the 318 so HP potential is the same but at a higher RPM than the 318. Your car show buddies wont know the difference between a 273 or a 416 CID stroked 360 by looks alone. Dont expect the 273 to pull hard from a light and cruise at 80, its just not that flexible in that size. You might consider an Over Drive trans from a later Mopar. That would give you a higher top end without destroying your low end, but itll have a pretty wide ratio.

 

[65Cudafix]

Again.... "Stay focused and positive. There are plenty of people on this board that can help and plenty will give you opinions only."

If you are choosing 273 then run a 273. If you go 340 or 360 you run into risk of exhaust issues ( yes the engines are the same size BUT you need more breathing for those engines for the larger displacement) due to tight quarters. Hard selection on headers too. Only a few fit with P/S. Automatic (if you are going that route) and clearance period. 318 is a better choice over a 340 or 360 unless this car is being built for it to begin with ( larger cooling and heavier suspension to handle torque from a 360). Trust me... I was going to build a 340 for my 66 in the picture but it is too tight and i want a good driving and QUIET car as well. My 318 was dynoe-ed at 325 with the factory 273 exhaust manifolds with very few mods. (325.4hp at 4800 rpm and 380ft torque @ 3750 rpm at flywheel)
Only take on what you are comfortable doing.
Find the correct intake and adjustable rockers, if you run a dual point distributor your only going 5500 rpm anyhow. And forged pistons are only needed if have a reason... turbo or nitrous. If not high compression, its just wasted money.
That 273 if built well will fit your needs. If your machinist gave you guff over bringing in the rockers... What an as$. When you redo the valves you should always have the faces of the rockers refaced to match the tops of the valves and clean and verify the rockers are ok. Its the job of the machinist to verify the rockers and refresh them for you.
Time for a new machinist . Heck just taking .040" off the heads gasket surface will improve compression, remember the new gaskets require no re torque BUT the loss is thicker gaskets... less compression.


Please sit down with a pen and pencil and write down what you want from the car and go from there. Sending out the heads before you even know what you are doing is possibly wasting money (my opinion)
You dont even know what cam you are going to use so what valve springs to put on those heads?
Good luck,
Joe
View attachment 1715059199

Joe,

Thanks, I'm a rookie and expect to get my *** handed to me often. I sent the heads in to ensure they weren't cracked, though I believe that's not often with old 273's because they are iron or cast or something... Anyway wanted to make sure that they weren't broke before I started building... Thought if they were ok I could at least use them on Cuda#1. Am I the only one who thinks he should have two 'Cudas?? (I do have two boy's so... why not, it may be Canadian but it's still a Cuda).

Seriously, I did buy the book, it just ain't here yet... They say "All roads lead to Rome", I don't want to piss my money away but, bottom line is I'm having fun and learning new skills in my retirement. My wife will spend the money if I don't anyway...

I had thought I'd use the 'Commando' cam, but haven't found out exactly what that is... Then thought a high performance, but seems those are mission specific. So I am lost on what cam and I hear cam dictates valves... which is the point behind my post.

There are so many rules that I can't even begin to comprehend someone posted that your carb is specific to whether your running an automatic or a manual! That is crazy talk to my uneducated brain! I thought that the carb provided air and fuel to the cylinders what the F does it care if the transmission is an automatic??? There is a lot for me to learn, and I believe that FABO is the place to learn it...

As I mentioned I just want to burn rubber at the F***ing stop signs/lights and run 60-80mph all day on pump gas, passing chevy's is simply a plus... What ever cam that might take, so be it...

Sorry for the rambling, Thanks for the advice. Believe me I could not do this without the support of you and FABO.

65Cudafix