360 Roller Build - Advice, etc. (Lengthy)

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Tech4Dummies

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Hello, all! Picked up my first A-body not to long ago, it's a aqua/teal 1973 Duster 4-speed car, Dutchman Axles posi rear, really good condition for what I paid. No air conditioning, no power steering. Came with a tired 360 LA engine so I ended up swapping a 318 into it with some headers and a 750 eddie & performer manifold. Should do fine for a while as a daily driver once I button up the last couple details of the swap in the coming days, the engine started up and ran every time in its previous engine bay and it's done a lot of sitting around over the past couple years so it's probably pretty low mileage.

Anyway....It only makes sense, in my mind, to rebuild the 360 as a nice roller motor to replace the 318 in the future. I came across a brand new, dirt-cheap Eagle 4340 forged 3.58" crank on Amazon and a set of Scat pro-series I-beam 6.123 rods for half price from Jegs. Crank and rods are still available from those sites last time I checked, very good prices. :) These are the only investments I've made thus far for this build so I wanted to run some numbers and info by all you Mopar gurus on here as far as most of the other components go and whether or not they compliment each other well and will be somewhat drivable around town,(concerned with tuning issues & stalling & hard starting) any advice is much appreciated. Here is the rest of the combo I had in mind:

Cam: Lunati Voodoo "Retro-Fit" Hyd. Roller, .560/.565 lift, 243/251 @ .050, 110 LSA.
Heads: Eddie Performer RPM (bare). i'm thinking titanium retainers, 5-angle job for larger intake valves (2.08 or maybe 2.10 if that's feasible?) with CNC porting and a trip to the flow bench. Goal is to flow 300 cfm at a half inch lift, or close to it. Oh and sodium-filled exhaust valves.
Pistons: I haven't looked into this but i'd like basic forged flat tops with coated skirts, aiming at 10.5:1 CR as called for by Lunati for that camshaft. The guys at my local shop will probably order them to match the combustion chamber cc they end up with after machine work, plan on running 93 octane too. They'll sort out the tuning on the dyno.
Intake/Carb: Port-matched Eddie Performer RPM air-gap and i'm thinking double pumper (doesn't matter what company - hit me with your suggestions) somewhere in the range of 750 to what, maybe 830 cfm? I don't want to overcarb it. Build is going to be roughly 370 cubes, hopefully a real 500 hp.
Bearings: No idea, never built a high performance small block mopar. Probably consult my engine builder for this but if you guys have any thoughts, by all means...

Oiling: Milodon street/strip 7-qt oil pan & windage tray. What oil pump do you guys suggest for this deal, probably going to make peak power at around 6,300 or whatever but i'll probably spin it 7k when racing, I'm going to breeze through the "oiling mods" sticky thread in a bit and consider all that info as well.

On to the general remaining thoughts of mine...going to use a high-volume aluminum water pump and i'm very tempted to go ahead and have the shop button everything up with a serpentine setup, there are only 3 pulleys on this engine plus whatever tensioner I might have to use. Going with an aluminum radiator & flex fan. I want to use a lightweight flywheel with a proven clutch (not hydraulic) that can handle 500-600 ft-lbs for peace of mind so all you street-strip guys gotta preach to me here. What works and what doesn't work for 11 second A-bodies as far as clutches go? I don't think i'll ever use slicks I was thinking more like 275 ET streets or whatever, launching at whatever rpm doesn't bog down.

Also thinking about doing an aluminum-case A833, non-overdrive old school nascar style box with 18-spline input shaft and steel bushings for the countershafts so they don't work their way into the aluminum case, not sure if its worth the money though...its just cool. Lol. But even if I stick with the iron case, what synchros/synchro material should I use?

These cars can only do so much with an unstroked street-driven small block so any weight I can remove is probably going to get removed. If yall havent noticed I've sort of geared a lot of this build towards weight reduction whether that be in the car or rotating assembly or whatever. Car is getting stripped and a roll cage and racing seats are going in at some point. Even if I don't take it to the strip that much, these items might very well save my life one day. These things are awesome death-traps :finga:

Thanks for reading fellas
 
welcome....
:angel12:


"Terrible" 1st post....:wack:

Mopar limited slip differentials are called "Sure-Grip"....not Posi.

And stating our preference of Automobile...."are Awesome Death Traps" at the end....doesnt get my attention to want to help you achieve 500hp...



I hate to say it...as the first reply to your Small Block 360 Hypothetical setup....

But man, you should do yourself a HUGE'ole favor there and hit the SEARCH button, and type in a couple of your keywords and do some reading....save all the rest of us some typing!!!

Dont know if you noticed or not but there are some Sticky's at the top of some of the Forums.....read those. A sticky is a thread that has been deemed to be LOADED with good relevant information to the subject of the sticky....and hence STUCK to the top of the Forum for quick reference.

Again, welcome.

Read away.........
 
Awesome death trap ? Not sure I'm comfortable helping you add 300 HP to an un-awesome death trap
 
welcome....
:angel12:


"Terrible" 1st post....:wack:

Mopar limited slip differentials are called "Sure-Grip"....not Posi.

And calling our preference of Automobile...."an Awesome Death Trap" at the end....doesnt get my attention to want to help you achieve 500hp...



I hate to say it...as the first reply to your Small Block 360 Hypothetical setup....

But man, you should do yourself a HUGE'ole favor there and hit the SEARCH button, and type in a couple of your keywords and do some reading....save all the rest of us some typing!!!

Dont know if you noticed or not but there are some Sticky's at the top of some of the Forums.....read those. A sticky is a thread that has been deemed to be LOADED with good relevant information to the subject of the sticky....and hence STUCK to the top of the Forum for quick reference.

Again, welcome.

Read away.........

Im pretty sure this particular axle setup is basically a Ford 9" if I remember what they said on their website correctly it's not a mopar specific deal. Both wheels spin at the same rate, that was my point and I thought it was pretty cool that I lucked out and picked a car in which I don't have to do much to the rear end setup except for some suspension stuff later.

Sorry about the death trap joke but it's kind of true, not about these particular cars but about old school muscle in general. I refuse to accept my fate of getting cut in half by a lap belt or being impaled by a steering rack. :D

I've done a lot of reading and gotten a lot of mixed info from it. I guess im looking for more specific real life "I used this cam and it's similar to yours & with this carb it had starting problems but with this other one is was much better" or "you're going to pay out the *** for this or that if you don't change out this part in your combo" etc...
 
Well. Every car is a death trap with idiot driving.

Double pumpers are made by Holley only.
Eagle stuff is dirt cheap for a reason.
Well ported Edelbrock heads will flow 300 or danm close with the stock valves.
If you really NEED to say I actually have a head that flows 300 cfm, check out Hughesengines.com.
The carb size is determined by the over all package and goal. 750 is fine. 830 more top end HP, but not really a lot more. Some fellas here run carb cfm's into the 900 area.
Stock oil pump and water pump will do.
Serpentine set ups on the engines do not use a 4th belt tightening device. Tighten it up with the Alternator like normal.

Transmission; dead stock with a twin pressure plate set up for dropping clutches at high rpm. Use a Lakewood scatter shield & driveshaft loop.
Bogging off the line is one of two things. Poor tune/set up or idiot behind the wheel.
Stick with the iron case.

Nothing about your (long winded) post suggests anything about weight reduction. Nothing.
All the "Hot Rod" parts that are lighter via the material there made with is a common thing to find on street cruisers.

You want weight reduction?!?!?!
Hot Rod magazine did a Duster with just that single goal in mind. The link I do not have handy but it has been posted here several times. Besides the basic fiberglass everything, they also did Lexan windows, aluminum center section on the rear, tube K frame and attaching parts. Do a search here or at Hot Rod for it and see what weight reduction is really about.

I think it was Hot Rod that also had a write up with Herb McCandles who did a 372 to 500HP. This is when the Edelbrock heads were new, so yea! It's been awhile, but it's been done a long time ago.

Generally speaking, I like your combo but do not know for sure if you will reach the 500 hp goal. A lot of it is also in the actual machining, part prep and assembling of the engine.
Lastly, in trying to address everything you wrote (Whew! LOL!)

Zero deck the pistons. I had run my 360 this way with a smaller cam and pump gas was OK with it. Also a 4spd car. E body though.

Enjoy!
 
You want weight reduction?!?!?!
Hot Rod magazine did a Duster with just that single goal in mind. The link I do not have handy but it has been posted here several times. Besides the basic fiberglass everything, they also did Lexan windows, aluminum center section on the rear, tube K frame and attaching parts. Do a search here or at Hot Rod for it and see what weight reduction is really about.

that Duster bracket races here in Vegas....
 
What is the part number on the crank you bought?

I've seen vendors on amazon have the cast crank advertised as a forged unit.

Part number 103603580 = cast $300ish
Part number 436035806123= Forged $750ish
 
What is the part number on the crank you bought?

I've seen vendors on amazon have the cast crank advertised as a forged unit.

Part number 103603580 = cast $300ish
Part number 436035806123= Forged $750ish

Wow. I'm glad you mentioned this, thank you. I just checked a few things.

This particular page is a good example of the discrepancy you're talking about. The number at the top of the page and in several other places on the page is 103603580 which would indicate a cast crank right?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002R633IQ/?tag=joeychgo-20

I'm not sure if that's the same exact page I got mine from as I seem to remember my price being $330 which I bumped down to $280 with a gift card I had laying around. The number on my actual crank is 36035806123 and it is indeed etched or stamped in, not raised as you'd expect with a casting. No mold separation marks anywhere. It's forged.

However! It was stupid of me to not look closer the first time, I just found rust on it. The rust is where the orange "notice" paper that's tied to the crank was resting so I didn't see it the first time. It's just before the first rod journal (above and to the side of that hole) and a smaller little splash of rust on the actual journal. Neither one of them are rubbing off so it's not just surface rust.

I should've known there would be a catch. Lesson learned.
 
I would sell the LA and buy a 5.9 Magnum.

Oh and when you use the bird flippin smiley on your first post askin for help, that ain't cool. In fact, I don't think that smiley is cool at all. Ever.
 
I would sell the LA and buy a 5.9 Magnum.

Oh and when you use the bird flippin smiley on your first post askin for help, that ain't cool. In fact, I don't think that smiley is cool at all. Ever.

Thanks for stopping by.

I've been wondering, is anybody here running a cam in the 240-250 @ .050 range, on the street? Similar to the cam I'm looking to use? I'm thinking it's the really questionable factor in my aforementioned combo.

If anyone has a cam like that, what's your carb/intake/compression combo look like with this cam? What about timing? Does it have somewhat decent manners?

Sorry my original post was so long, i've seen a lot of people get irritated when someone comes on a forum asking for help or advice but doesn't give hardly any info.
 
Sorry about the death trap joke but it's kind of true, not about these particular cars but about old school muscle in general. I refuse to accept my fate of getting cut in half by a lap belt or being impaled by a steering rack. :D
Being killed by an airbag's more appealing? To my knowledge all A bodies have collapsible columns after '67. The self-tensioning shoulder belts became pretty much standard fare in cars in '74. To me the little cars being called muscle cars never really seems right- there's a world of difference between a Satellite and a Duster and it's more that they're different than that either's worse. Of course they are about as light as a stout body will get so that can be pretty dangerous in an idiot's hands.

Rusty Rat made a pretty good suggestion. If you're planning to go hydraulic roller, unfortunately it just makes good sense to get a Magnum 360 to do it. Not a whole lot more to add other than that piece of if you want a roller cam SBM, buy one and then build it from there.
 
Being killed by an airbag's more appealing? To my knowledge all A bodies have collapsible columns after '67. The self-tensioning shoulder belts became pretty much standard fare in cars in '74. To me the little cars being called muscle cars never really seems right- there's a world of difference between a Satellite and a Duster and it's more that they're different than that either's worse. Of course they are about as light as a stout body will get so that can be pretty dangerous in an idiot's hands.

Rusty Rat made a pretty good suggestion. If you're planning to go hydraulic roller, unfortunately it just makes good sense to get a Magnum 360 to do it. Not a whole lot more to add other than that piece of if you want a roller cam SBM, buy one and then build it from there.

It's not myself i'm worried about its all the other people around me on the road, or any kind of failure occurring at high speeds on this thing. I mean im certain I can get it into the 11's anyway so Im going to want a cage so I don't get kicked out of the track but having a rollover without one isn't a pleasing thought either lol.

It's a shame I got rid of my 98 Durango 5.9 I could've used that block but I used it as a trade on a new truck. I do miss it, great vehicle. Tough as nails.

Anybody streeting the kind of cam I was asking about?
 
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