383 vs 400

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If you are using a 440 crank in a 400 block why don't you just bore out a 440?
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I wonder, who your talking to since the OE poster is wondering about 2 cars with a 383 and a 400 in them. The OE poster never made mention of a 440 and others are just making talk.

Just on going with what you wrote, maybe, just maybe, the 440 block is no good?
 
Biggest problem with stock block 400's is that the compression was only 8.5 (or slightly lower) with the piston .075-.080" below deck for 200-230HP. When compared to the "stock block" 69-383 you get 10 to 1 with a piston proud of the block by .021" and 335HP. Big difference, this is why I'm more drawn to 383 as the start point.

You get very close to 11.0 compression if you get the piston that far out of the block, all you need to do is stick a head with roughly 78cc chamber and you get 10.0 with a zero deck piston
 
I had a '73 Sattelite with a 400,back in the mid 70's. Sure,it was a dog,and a gas hog. That does'nt mean they have no potential. I've seen many,with a little work,turned into monsters. Wish I still had it,today.
 
to the original poster... if you plan on running a stock mill I'd take the 383, peppy performance and revs pretty good to boot. If you are gonna do some mods, I'd definitely take the 400. Incredible potential and 499/500 cubes is as easy as falling off a log! And like Stroker Scamp I have a steel crank 400 as well, I pulled the engine out of a early 70's pickup at Pick-N-Pull so of course I have no proof whether it was factory or not. I also had a 400 in a 73 Newport (da Luv Boat!!) all stock so of course it wasn't a barn burner but it was very reliable and very good torque. Personally I'd take the 400...
 
ASSUMING 88 cc's for the heads and a .040" compressed head gasket that puts the CR at 7.85:1. A steel shim .020" head gasket would put it at 8.14:1. This engine was a 2-brl but that still seems low. Especially since the heads may be closer to 90 cc's.

It's a real crap shoot, almost all the original motors I've torn into were at least 1/2 point low on compression. 2 383 hp motors were the exceptions. I think I just got lucky though on those. Production tolerances were pretty bad on some stuff. Dave

This is regarding 383 engines so it's something to consider and this was pulled from a Moparts thread in regards to someone who did a check on their 69 383 engine.
 
Thanks everyone for your advice and info
 
dodge 400 are low compression engines. u have to do so much make it have decent amount of power.u might as well find a small block car. go with a 383 way better engines u get alot more horse it kept stock. choose the 383 duster.
 
either will be fun. i thought th eonly 383s that had decent compression from the factory were the hp ones? 2 brl motors had the piston way down in the hole, no? werent the hp figured rated differently between the 383 and 400? you are looking at complete cars, but if you were doing a swap, i like the 400. i just did my 3 rd big block a body with a 400. i used the power steering setup the electronic distributor, spool motor mounts that came on it. the 452 heads are on the shelf, but i like those too. the cast crank is ok unless you are going with a stick. my car is a stock 400, i honed it new cast rings a steel crank since it is a stick, new bearings timing chain, small cam close to a factory hp cam, shim head gaskets 906 heads that i had, headers and a performer intake, i was using a thermoquad but it turned into a headache, i want to be out driving it, ill go back to the thermoquad. it really screamed when those secondaries opened. it isnt the fastest car ive owned but it will burn rubber like no tomorrow. definitely a fun car and the 400 is about as close to stock as you can get.
 
The dimensions of the once-crappy 400 seem to be nearly ideal for performance builds these days.

http://www.arengineering.com/articles/ttstroker.html




Low Buck, Low Deck Mopar Stroker

By Andy Finkbeiner

Photos by Ron Valera



When the 426W in my 1965 Coronet spun a rod bearing, I decided to start looking into building a stroker motor for it. A little bit of research on the web at the Moparts.com site fueled the desire to build a motor based on a Chrysler 400 block with a 440 crank stuffed into it.

Putting a 440 crank into a 400 block typically yields 451 cubic inches, but I decided to have the rod journals offset ground for some extra stroke. Once I started to shop for parts I received some very pleasant surprises in terms of part combinations and prices. Since this combination is coming together so nicely for me I thought I’d share it with others.

The 400 block makes a great foundation for a serious street motor. Available from 1972 through 1978 in Chrysler’s bigger cars, it developed a reputation as a dog of a motor due to the low compression and lean burn system. None of that matters to me though since I’ll be dropping in some JE pistons and building it right. Not too many people know this, but a Chrysler 400 block is taller than the Chevy big block so there is plenty of space in there for the 440 crank and some long rods. After a little bit of searching, I found a 1972 400 shortblock for sale in the local paper for $50 so the first step was out of the way.




Before starting any machine work, the block was sonic tested. This operation should be considered mandatory whenever you’re planning to make more than 500 hp. Sonic checking will quickly tell you if the cylinder walls are uniform enough to take the load. Old wives tales about "thin wall" or "thick wall" blocks are not to be trusted. Any block from any year can be either thick or thin. Spend the $75 and be positive of what you have before you sink the remaining $4000 into it.



Here is the 1972 400 block getting decked. This was a nice thick casting so it should be plenty stout. Block was bored and honed with a torque plate to a finished diameter of 4.375 which is a popular Chevy size. The 400 block comes from the factory at 4.342 so a 0.033 over bore was required.

The crankshaft from the 426W had a spun rod bearing and the mains were 0.030 under so it was in sad shape. Typically these kinds of conditions would doom it to the junk pile, but for me it was perfect. The mains needed to be turned down from the 426 size of 2.750 to the 400 size of 2.625 anyway, so that cleans up that problem. The rod journals were too far gone to redo at the standard Chrysler size of 2.375, but there was plenty of meat to clean up at Chevy big block size of 2.200. In fact, there was so much meat that the machine shop offset ground the rod journals to a final stroke of 3.875. This was accomplished by grinding more off the inside of the rod journal than the outside. For a grand total of $250, I now had a std/std stroker crank!



I know it is starting to sound like a Frankenstein motor with the Chevy rod journals and the 440 crank, but the key to making this all work is a fantastic work of art from Manley Performance. Manley sells a connecting rod that is the Chrysler length of 6.765 inches, and is proper Chrysler width, but it uses the Chevy big block pin sizes of 2.200 and 0.990. This rod is a very nice design and is rated for 750 horsepower. Best thing was that when I went to buy these rods, Manley had them on sale for $495 on their website.



The crank started its life as a 426W crank in 1965. After several rebuilds and a spun bearing or two, it was ready for the scrap heap. By turning the mains down 0.125 and offset grinding the rod journals to 2.200, we had a stroker crank. Manley rods and JE pistons finish off the rotating assembly.







Final part of the puzzle for this stroker shortblock were the pistons. It turns out that this combination is becoming popular enough that several companies sell a stock piston right off the shelf. Muscle Motors sells their version of the Ross piston for $499 which is a tough price to beat. I went with the JE pistons on the advice of an engine builder friend, but I’m sure that any of the major brands will work just fine in this combination. I had the block bored and honed to a final bore size of 4.375 since that allowed me to use a popular ring combination. This is an overbore of 0.033 for the 400 motor so plenty of cylinder wall thickness was left for future rebuilds. Pistons are flat tops with valve reliefs and were set at 0.008 down in the hole.




What are these Chevy parts doing in a Mopar engine buildup? Chevy 4.375 rings, Chevy 0.990 piston pin and Chevy 2.200 rod bearings are what I used to make this Mopar stroker motor.





Manley Sportsman rods are Chrysler length and width, but have Chevy 2.200 rod journals and Chevy 0.990 piston pins. JE pistons are almost a pound lighter each than the stock Mopar pistons!

One minor complication was the fact that the crankshaft didn’t rotate in the block on the first try! It turns out that the 440 counterweight design is a little bigger than the 400 block was designed for. Some grinding on the block would have cleaned up the issue fairly quickly, but we needed to lighten up the crank anyway in order to balance the motor, so I turned the counterweights down in a lathe. A little bit of experimentation showed that if the counterweights were turned down to a finished diameter of 7.250 inches, the bobweight of the crank would be 2400 grams. Since the grand total of the rods, pistons, rings, and other parts was 2371 grams, we were in business. Final balancing was done by the engine builder and required only a tiny bit of material being removed from the crankshaft. Now the crank spun freely in the block and the final rotating assembly bobweight was low enough that this motor will think it is a small block!



The shortblock was buttoned up with a timing chain cover from Hershberger Motors. It is a part that looks cool and works well even though it was overkill for this application. This billet timing chain cover is designed for guys running roller cam motors since it allows them to precisely set the endplay of the cam. I’ll be running a solid lifter cam from Mopar Performance so I didn’t need this cover, but I liked the way it looked and I had saved enough money on the rods and cranks to splurge a little.



The oiling system is a combination of a Milodon dual inlet pump with a custom built full length pan. The hole in the pan is for the tie rod to run through since this motor is going into a stock chassis B body.



The Edelbrock heads were topped off with stainless steel rocker arms from Rocker Arm Specialist. These rocker arms are designed for the high performance street driven car and feature proper oiling holes and bronze bushings for long life. The tall M1 manifold, 750 cfm Holley carb and 1 inch spacer can also be seen in this picture. The adjustable throttle linkage comes from Mancini racing. Camshaft is the Mopar Performance 0.528 lift solid cam. With these 1.60 rockers, final valve lift is about 0.560.



Edelbrock aluminum heads were chosen because they flow so well for such a low price. These 84 cc heads work perfectly with the flat top JE pistons to provide a compression ratio of 10.5:1 which should be just about right for a street driven car. We were able to take them right out of the box and bolt them on. Sad to say, our experience with previous aftermarket big block heads had not been quite as pretty. One set of heads from a different vendor required several hundred dollars of re-work before we could even run them. In contrast to that experience, Edelbrock seems to be making a very high quality part with these heads. These heads were purchased from Greg at Magnum Automotive in Southhold, NY. Greg, or GregZ as he is known on the Moparts.com board was one of the first retailers to carry this head so we got one of the very first sets available.



Here we are on our date with the dyno! Final result was 550 hp at 5700 rpm. The cast iron manifolds kept the power curve from going up past that point, but the engine still made plenty of power for our chassis. Our goal was 500 hp so we were all pretty happy. The Edelbrock heads picked up almost 100 hp over a similar motor with a set of home ported 906 heads that we tested a few days later. Those back-to-back tests convinced us of the power capability of the Edelbrocks. Dyno testing as well as all engine machining was done at Gray’s Automotive in Tigard, OR.



Here is the home for the stroker motor. Notice how that the K member has been notched and boxed for oil pan clearance. This photo also shows some of the welding that is going on to reinforce the unibody in anticipation of that big block torque!



So that is the tale of the low buck, low deck stroker motor. Final size of the motor will be 466 cubic inches since we used the 3.875 stroke. Had the rod journals not been so wasted, I could’ve stretched it out to over 470 inches, but I had to work with what I had on hand. By purchasing a few parts on sale, and resurrecting a few others from the junk heap, the short block cost was kept fairly low. The MP cam is a very economical choice and the Edelbrock heads do not cost much more than a full rebuild on a set of factory cast iron heads. All in all, a motor like this can be duplicated for about $4000 if you do some careful shopping.

Contact Information:

Edelbrock

www.edelbrock.com

Gray’s Automotive

8975 SW Burnham

Tigard, OR 97223

503-620-4353

Hershberger Motors

PO Box 586

Woodburn, OR 97071

1-800-311-3945

Magnum Auto Repair

PO Box 1909

Southhold, NY 11971

Mancini Racing

PO Box 239

Roseville, MI 48066

1-800-843-2821

www.manciniracing.com

Rocker Arm Specialist

19841 Hirsch Court

Anderson, CA 96007

503-378-1075

www.shastacounty.com/rockerarm
 
It's almost like a 340/360 debate only in the form of a big block :lol:

I have to stand up for the lowly 400. Yes, back in the day and in stock form, the 383 was a damn good engine. If you a rebuilding anyways, there is nothing wrong with a 400 whatsoever. Yes the compression is low but you can change all that. I'd probably choose the 400. You can do the 451 thing which is a proven power combo. If you know what to do with a 400, it is not needed.

I have one in a '65 Chrysler Newport which is my driver. It's an 80k mile 400 from a '73 Dodge Charger. It' has a.470 lift Hughes cam with a smallish duration (like 214 at .050) along with matched valve springs, 452 heads, double roller timing chain, Edelbrock performer 383 and a modified 600cfm Holley vacumn secondary carb. It even has sh**y single exhaust until I can afford a dual exhaust system for it.

I did not expect much when I got it but I think I am a believer now. This damn thing will shred the back tire off so basically this engine in an a body would be :headbang: Car is to nice so I'm not doing it. Love my boat!

I have the cam card here somewhere if anyone want's to know the specs.

My 400 is rather fun but of course YMMV...
 
Not a 400.
But a stock 440 .160 down in the hole.
About 8.5-1 comp
Performer RPM intake
.528 mopar cam
Holley 780 carb
Schumacher headers
Very well built 727 trans-back up for my race car.
3.91 8 1/4 rear end
Sub frame tiered
Car runs 12.20's
Bolted on a set of Mopar Stage six heads and went 11.80's
Used the juice and went10.90's

IMGP1289.jpg


IMGP0513.jpg


Funnest car we have.
IMGP1283.jpg
 
Now THAT is sound advice !

IMO,
From a future rebuilding standpoint, Hands Down the 400 is a far better Block than the 383.
Bigger Bore
Thicker Main Webs
Better Cooling Jackets

Thanks ... seems to make the most sense. \\:D/
 
i have run both engines in my car...
75 duster 3000 stall, 3.23 gears, used same set of 452 heads 84-86 cc open chamber, and 69 c-body hp manifolds on both engines, torquer intake portmatched and 650 double pumper on both 1 in spacer, dual 2.5 exh. and heres the differences and fastest times in the quarter...
69' 383 hp bone stock flat top pistons and 0 deck, fastest time in the quarter was consistent 14.00-14.20's
75' 400, bone stock bottom end, pistons flat top but 20 in the hole, comp 284 xe cam, matching springs and lifters, double roller timing chain and smaller crank pulley, the 400 would run in the 14.20-14.50 range
both engines were fun, and streetable, i found the 383 to be a happy quick reving engine, while the 400 would rev but it was a noticeable difference between the two. that being said if the 400's pistons were at 0 deck height it would probably be very fun to drive with the extra cubes and making more torque, my preference is the 383. however i like revs if your going for torque i would bump comp up on a 400 and play with it, parts on both engines are interchangeable, minus pistons, and easy enough to find kicking around, theres my two bits take what you want
cheers :)
 
my 2 cents.... You can't beat the 400 when doing a complete rebuild. Yes the factory 400 sucked. It was laden with bad electronics and poor fuel management. But to start with a clean block from scratch? 400. It can take more stroke and more bore. It has stronger main webbing, period! I have an early block cast in 71. Holy moly, the upper main webbing is solid up to the cam journals!!!
 
I had a 73 charger with the 260 horse 400 4bbl. It had the magnum cam stock. hp manifolds and big thermoquad. Never got beat by a stock 383. Beat some 440s to. The compression was down compared to the 383. I think the carb and intake made up for it. I put a crane 278h in it and it ran even better.
 
It all a matter of what you like. The one in my picture to the left is a 440. 4.15 stroke,4.350 bore. weisco forged pistons 11.4 comp., ported eddy heads, super victor, 1050 dom., comp cams solid roller 273 degrees @.050, 108 center line, 306 total, harlen sharp 1.5, smith bro. push rods. It sounds sweet! It's in the blue a-body in the photo. 1970 duster 340, no rust, narrowed dana 4:56 spool, full cal track suspension,14 pt. tig welded cage, frame tied, built torqueflite, 4000 stall, Mid plate and front plates and limiters. Haven't run it yet. What's it gona run?
 
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