440 troubles

[dukeboy440]

Some of you that followed my project build thread may know or remember my saga with my 440 block intended for my dart build. Below is copied from my build thread:

so the 440 is back from the machine shop, but there may be some issues with it, so much for that happy day.



"I swear I'm cursed with this 440.

I took my 2 kids with me this morning to get it (wife got called into work), so when I was there, I didn't check the block very well, and the guys at the machine shop loaded everything for me. I should have checked it, the block, while it had obviously been tanked but probably not well or long enough, when I got it home, the water jackets are full of crap, out side of the block, there's baked on grease and paint all over, especially around the distributor hole and the bolt holes are all rusty, well light flash type rust. This isn't as much concerning as the cam bearings, I'm no professional but the holes are only lined up on 2 of the bearings, the other, 90% of the hole is blocked and the other is about 75% block. The very front cam bearing is by far the worst, that hole is dang near halfway blocked by the bearings and full of lube(which can be cleaned out). I've waited 18 months for this block to get back to me, had them jack prices up on me and now some potential issues. I'll get pics posted later, right now i'm so mad i could throw the block across the yard.



The so called professional machine job. In the pics, which are best I can get, you'll see partially and fully blocked oil passages in the cam bearings. As well as very rough and gouged cam bearngs (is this normal for brand new professionally installed bearings?) You'll see gouges and even RUST in the cylinder bores. The block was supposed to be honed or bored if the bores needed it. These bores were not rusty at all when it went to the shop 18 months ago. I ordered the .030 pistons as instructed by the shop but it looks like it's gonna have to be bored to at least .040. There's also 2 deep scratches in one bore that you catch a finger on, not sure they show up well in the pics. Also, the block looks pressure washed and not hot tanked." (SEE PICS BELOW)



Well I just got off the phone with the third engine shop I've taken it too for opinions on what to do, all 3 think it can be made right but they are split as far as whether or not it'll need bored over. 1 says yes, the other says no and that a light hone will clean the rust that came home in the bores from the last machine shop(no rusty bores when it in) and the other recommends it based on the other shoddy work that was done.


So the prices to fix the issues and to actually deck and linehone it like it was supposed to be, range from 350-550. depending on the shop.

Now, I do have 2 spare 440 blocks that are standard bore cores. I asked each of those shops what itd cost to start from scratch with one of those,tanked, cleaned up, new freeze plugs, bored .030 (so I can use my perfectly good and brand new balanced .030 rotating assembly), zero decked, line honed, cam bearings.

500-900 again depending on the shop.

So help me decide which option to do.

 

[n.y.340 dart]

Are you shiting me! Those assholes should'nt be in business!

 

[dukeboy440]

Are you shiting me! Those assholes should'nt be in business!

He's tied up in a law suit right now from what the paper said. He's been in business for 30 plus years , but turned it over to his son last year to actually do the "work"

 

[65 Dartman]

That is some pretty bad work. Every block my machine shop has tanked for me came back totally cleaned - no grease no leftover paint. The last one I had did was a slant bored 30 over. He wanted the replacement Pistons before boring it. Cam bearings were spot on as far as lining up the holes. Can't make the call on what to do since you need to make the final decision based on what you have and your finances.

 

[GeorgeH]

Not sure what happened there Chris, but that doesn't look bored to me. Look like a block that's been run and just deglazed, Switcharoo? Not digging the zizz wheel cleanup on the deck.

 

[dukeboy440]

That is some pretty bad work. Every block my machine shop has tanked for me came back totally cleaned - no grease no leftover paint. The last one I had did was a slant bored 30 over. He wanted the replacement Pistons before boring it. Cam bearings were spot on as far as lining up the holes. Can't make the call on what to do since you need to make the final decision based on what you have and your finances.

Yep it's my fault to some degree for not unwrapping it then And there .

Either option financially is doable for me and wouldn't delay the overall project much. It's more of a which bullet to bite , the 9mm or the .45

 

[dukeboy440]

Not sure what happened there Chris, but that doesn't look bored to me. Look like a block that's been run and just deglazed, Switcharoo? Not digging the zizz wheel cleanup on the deck.

It's the same block. I was smart enough to have pics of the vin and casting numbers prior to dropping it off.

 

[dukeboy440]

Not sure what happened there Chris, but that doesn't look bored to me. Look like a block that's been run and just deglazed, Switcharoo? Not digging the zizz wheel cleanup on the deck.

And they for sure honed it. It was .030 over already and was supposed to be honed. They at least did that as the gouges weren't there to begin with

 

[65 Dartman]

I missed the deck on yours. Mine was decked 90 thou and from the measurements of how far down in the hole the Pistons were before and after, I got what I paid for. Agree with GeorgeH - was the block switched?

 

[Dubob]

Man sorry to hear your issues. Seeing the "quality" of the work performed I'd personally be concerned with how true the bore and hone that they did is. May be worth your time to have the taper of the cylinder bores verified before going any further with the block. That alone may answer the question for you. I also have to 2nd what 65 Dartman stated about having the pistons in hand before boring and honing to ensure the piston to wall clearance is correct. I can't give a definite answer but I'd be concerned with quality issues you don't see. I see it was bored oversized already. So disregard that part.

 

[GeorgeH]

It's the same block. I was smart enough to have pics of the vin and casting numbers prior to dropping it off.

Were the cylinders scuffed that bad to begin with? Just wondering if the didn't thoroughly asses before they had you order pistons.

Don't feel bad, I have a b stroker motor out there that was bored 4.38 for 4.375 pistons and they assembled it. Noisey as all get out and the rings never seated.

 

[dukeboy440]

Were the cylinders scuffed that bad to begin with? Just wondering if the didn't thoroughly asses before they had you order pistons.

Don't feel bad, I have a b stroker motor out there that was bored 4.38 for 4.375 pistons and they assembled it. Noisey as all get out and the rings never seated.

Nope.

 

[dukeboy440]

I missed the deck on yours. Mine was decked 90 thou and from the measurements of how far down in the hole the Pistons were before and after, I got what I paid for. Agree with GeorgeH - was the block switched?

I don't have the measurement but it for sure wasn't decked

 

[hemi446]

I have my own machine shop and nothing ever left my shop looking like that. The bores look like they had water left in them that's why they look pitted they don't look like they have been bored. The cam bearings are shot they wouldn't last 5 mins and just waste your cam. If you have another block start with that and get it done by someone that has a good reputation. Then take the first block and the bill and ask the first shop to cover it 18 months and a half *** job there is no reason for them to be in business.

 

[dukeboy440]

I have my own machine shop and nothing ever left my shop looking like that. The bores look like they had water left in them that's why they look pitted they don't look like they have been bored. The cam bearings are shot they wouldn't last 5 mins and just waste your cam. If you have another block start with that and get it done by someone that has a good reputation. Then take the first block and the bill and ask the first shop to cover it 18 months and a half *** job there is no reason for them to be in business.

That's what I've been told by these three shops too. Hate to have a brand new box of king cam bearings ruint but it is what it is. And I already tried to get that shop to make good on it, got told to "f%%k off" . I even talked to an attorney, itd cost more to fight the guy in court than it would be to start over. I do know the bores were done, they were done by a previous shop prior to the rod bearing spinning. That said, I think I shall start over. Hopefully one of the two cores can be good to go at .030 . I am lucky, my rotating assembly was done by a different shop cause the shop that did the block, their machine broke and they never got it fixed so I went to a third party. Luckily that has all checked out good by the other shops.

 

[dukeboy440]

Oh I forgot to mention..... they lost my original pistons.

 

[GeorgeH]

Oh I forgot to mention..... they lost my original pistons.

Pressing the pins out can distort them anyway.

 

[dukeboy440]

Pressing the pins out can distort them anyway.

Yeah I know, they were lo compression Silvo lites anyway. Didn't really care much for them but it just shows how crappy that shop is.

 

[fishmens67]

take it as a loss and a lesson learned. start fresh with a different block. IMO that block is junk. a sonic test will reveal that on the next cut.

 

[famous bob]

take it as a loss and a lesson learned. start fresh with a different block. IMO that block is junk. a sonic test will reveal that on the next cut.

I think u should take documented pics, and take him to court. And sue for lawyer court costs too !

 

[dukeboy440]

I think u should take documented pics, and take him to court. And sue for lawyer court costs too !

ive got all the pics and the reports from the engine shops on paper plus receipts etc. But i talked to a couple lawyers, its gonna cost me 3-4 grand upfront to take him to court because the damage amount exceeds 1500 so by state law, it goes from small claims to full civil court. That 3-4 grand will finish my dart and repair/replace the block. besides, according to the paper, he's already in a couple law suits by doing shoddy work on some $10K+ race engines. He wont be around long. Ive driven by twice in the last month during his post business hours and the doors are shuttered tight. So I dont even know if the dude is even still in business. I went to him to begin with because he had several strong recommendations from guys all over the area but no one can explain why he half-assed this job and the others all last year

 

[Garry in AZ]

If it were me, I'd chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on. Whether you build one of your other blocks or start over with this one really depends on the condition of the other blocks. I would also suggest a good Magnafluxing would be money well spent before you start the machine work. When you choose a machine shop, make sure they understand what your expectations are for the finished work, and never accept anything without inspecting things first. Explain the eventual goals for the engine, and what parts you plan to use, compression ratio target, etc. I also prefer to get the same shop that does the block to do my rotating assembly, as they understand the clearances, bearing choices, etc. Very sorry to see how badly you got screwed over, but in the long run work like that will soon put them out of business.
Best of luck to you going forward.
Garry

 

[dukeboy440]

If it were me, I'd chalk it up to a lesson learned and move on. Whether you build one of your other blocks or start over with this one really depends on the condition of the other blocks. I would also suggest a good Magnafluxing would be money well spent before you start the machine work. When you choose a machine shop, make sure they understand what your expectations are for the finished work, and never accept anything without inspecting things first. Explain the eventual goals for the engine, and what parts you plan to use, compression ratio target, etc. I also prefer to get the same shop that does the block to do my rotating assembly, as they understand the clearances, bearing choices, etc. Very sorry to see how badly you got screwed over, but in the long run work like that will soon put them out of business.
Best of luck to you going forward.
Garry

Thanks for the tips. All goals and parts were discussed with the first builder and he wrote them down on my ticket. Good news is, come to find out yesterday, one of the shops that gave me their quote is actually the shop that balanced it.

 

[HemiDenny]

I would take it to small claims....no lawyer bill. Just plead your case. Most small claim courts limit the amount you can recover....maybe $2500. check with your local govt.

At least you have a shot.....take a chance, Columbus did.